An Illusion, Or One Of The Best In Baseball? A Look At Jeff Karstens
One of the many appealing aspects of the game of baseball is its rich statistical record. By looking at a box score, a fan can recreate what happened over the course of a game without having seen it. By looking at seasons of data, players from different eras can be compared and bar-stool debates become all the richer.
Over the last thirty years, through the development of sabermetrics, our understanding of the statistical record of baseball has been advanced, and the analysis has become more granular. RBI and pitcher wins are less meaningful numbers, while FIP and BABip, among others, have been added to the lexicon and elevated in status.
With the reams of available data and the development of these new statistics, the predictive nature of player analysis has become much more refined. Now a variety of programs can, with some degree of accuracy, forecast each and every player's performance based on their past history and that of other similar players. Certainly there will be outliers, but in general these player forecasting models do a pretty accurate job of projecting performance.
All of which is a roundabout way of getting to Pittsburgh Pirates starting pitcher Jeff Karstens. As Karstens rolled through the Houston Astros on his way to an 83-pitch, five-hit shutout last night, a win that moved the Bucs into first place in the NL Central, the oft-seen debate again flared up on Twitter. Is Jeff Karstens really this good or is this just an incredible hot streak which too shall pass? The two positions are pretty clearly delineated:
Smoke & Mirrors:
ESPN.com baseball analyst Keith Law has become the evil personification of this position in the eyes of many Pirates fans. During last night's game Law tweeted this, this and this among other things.** Law's opinion is based on history and scouting. Certainly the 28-year old Karstens' major league performance coming into the season did not portend this type of success. In 50 starts and 89 total appearances he posted an ERA of 5.07, an ERA+ of 83, and a WHIP of 1.441. He had a K/9 of 4.5, not exactly Gibsonian, and a BB/9 of 2.8. Throw in his 12-27 W/L record and "Cy Young candidate" does not jump off the page.
**Law didn't endear himself to Pirates fans just before the All-Star break either. When asked if the Pirates winning record was for real, he tweeted that no, they were 38-40 against all teams not called the Astros. Fans rightly pointed out that he was cherry-picking his stats, ignoring the Pirates 8-4 combined record against the Phillies, Red Sox, Cards & Diamondbacks, all first-place teams at the time.
Watch Him Pitch:
That is pretty much the best way to sum up the other point of view. Last night's game would be Exhibit A in the courtroom.
9 IP, 5 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 2 K. 30 batters faced. 83 pitches-64 strikes, eight swinging strikes
Advocates of this position argue Karstens has become a much better "pitcher." He has shown much better command and an ability to vary his pitches and pitch speed due to a new approach on the mound crafted with new pitching coach Ray Searage.
The Reality:
The great thing about statistics is first and foremost, before being predictive, they tell us what actually did happen. There is no room for debate here, so let's look at what Jeff Karstens has done thus far this year. His full player page is here.
When analyzing Karsten's numbers against the top 20 qualified National League pitchers based on ERA, we find some pretty interesting things. All twenty have made at least 16 starts and none more than 20. Kartens has made 16 and is the only one of the group to have appeared in relief, which he has done four times.
Of the group Karstens is 18th in IP, 18th in K/9, 20th in HR/9, 19th in HR/FB% and 20th in WAR.** His FIP-ERA is almost double any other pitcher on the list.
**Fangraphs has Karstens at a WAR value of 0.4, putting him ahead of only James McDonald among Pirates starters and 52 out of 60 qualified NL starters. B-R has him at a value of 2.5, first among Pirates starters and 17th in the NL.
On the flip side he is 3rd in ERA, 4th in WHIP, 1st in pitches/IP, 2nd in BB/9, 2nd in BABip and 1st in LOB%.
These numbers generally tell you everything you need to know about the debate. The Smoke & Mirrors camp points to the fact that Karstens doesn't strike anyone out, gives up tons of home runs and has been very lucky with an unsustainably low BABip and LOB% which are currently much better than league average. The argument says those numbers are due to revert and poof, the Karstens of old will reappear.
The Watch Him Pitch camp can point to Karstens' pinpoint command, as demonstrated by his amazingly low walk total, his low WHIP and the fact that he goes after hitters efficiently. They point to the fact that all his home runs allowed as a starter have been solo shots, and batters are rarely squaring him up and making good contact. His LD% is a touch below league average and his HR/FB% should revert back toward the mean, counteracting his BABip reverting the other way. His swinging strike percentage of 13% is just off the league average of 15% and is above his career average, while is K% is a career-best 14.2% and is a more reflective number than K/9 because he has faced so many fewer hitters.
Either way, it is virtually impossible to argue that anyone has been better than Karstens since June 1. Since that time here are JK's numbers:
8 GS, 57.1 IP, 39 H, 7 BB, 0.802 WHIP, 20 K, .554 OPS, 1.26 ERA, 5-0 W/L
While analysts and fans can point to numbers that may revert, past events don't change. This statistical record is in the books. It is what it is. And while some may not like how it was achieved or who it was achieved against** or that Karstens didn't strike out enough batters, I'm certain you won't find a pitcher who was better than Jeff Karstens the last six weeks. That's just a fact.
**Detractors will point to the fact that three of Karstens' last six starts have come against the Astros, one of the worst teams in baseball. While the Astros are bad, their lineup isn't that bad and as a team they have an OPS+ of 94, not much off the league average. Also, facing a team three times in 31 days generally works heavily in favor of the hitters, not the pitcher.
The $64,000 Question:
Karstens' next three starts come against the Reds, Braves and Phillies, the last two on the road.
If you're a Karstens fan, take heart in the fact that the Keith Laws of the world have been wrong before. An analyst who relies heavily on statistics and scouting reports is certainly likely to be right way more often than wrong, but it is very hard to ever believe in any player showing a dramatic change, particularly later in his career. Law was spectacularly wrong on Jose Bautista, even at the start of this year, so it happens.
The reality is that few players do make a quantum leap later in their career, and at 28 this would be a remarkable performance shift if Karstens were able to maintain it.
I've seen every game Karstens has pitched this year. As late as the beginning of June I was expecting and advocating for the Pirates to call up Brad Lincoln to take his spot in the rotation. Karstens' inability to get deep in games and career track record were the reasons. Has my opinion changed? Absolutely. What I've seen on the mound is a different guy in terms of his command and pitch selection. While the comparisons to Greg Maddux sound silly, I can certainly see why somebody watching the last eight games would make them. Batters never seem to square up balls, he keeps hitters off-balance and his command is outstanding.
While it would be foolish to expect Karstens next 15 starts to be as good as his last eight, I do think Karstens is capable of continuing to pitch at a high level down the stretch. It's taken a long time for me to come around, but this is doesn't seem to be an illusion.
I'll just enjoy watching him take the ball every fifth day and see how it plays out. Maybe the Pirates have found themselves a pitching version of Jose Bautista, and other teams can kick themselves that they didn't pick him up off waivers when he was DFA'd off the 40-man roster less than two years ago. Maybe the baseball gods really are smiling on Pittsburgh for a change.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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Outstanding stuff David...
I was out and about last night and one of the bars we hit had the Astros broadcast on. The first thing I saw was Jeff Karstens batting in the top of the eighth — and I thought it was a good thing! I wouldn’t have been able to think that thought three months ago. Had someone described the identical circumstance to me then, I would have thought that the team was getting shelled so badly that they weren’t even bothering to pinch hit for the mop-up guy. But now my immediate take is “Karstens has them under control, the Bucs must be rolling.”
Wow.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
If for some reason he does replicate in the the 2nd half
he will win the Cy Young and laugh at everyone in the league
he will get votes
but it’s between Halladay and Jurjiens at this point IMO
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
Remember that long road once more, then kiss it...kiss it goodbye
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Jul 17, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Illusion
I’m glad Karstens has done well, I really am. He’s benefitted from an absurdly low BABIP and an improved defense. There have been numerous studies done about this stuff. Enjoy the ride while it lasts because chances are likely he’s due for severe regression.
I’m not trying to rain on anybody’s parade because I love seeing the Pirates turning things around. Hopefully he keeps this up but that wouldn’t be a smart bet to make.
I agree
I think it’s an illusion as well and I don’t see him repeating this terrific season next year. However, like you said, I’m enjoying watching him pitch well. That’s all we can ask for.
Proud fan of Pittsburgh's professional sports teams and the Pirates too.
by Black&GoldTrain on Jul 17, 2011 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions
….Which is unfortunate. He doesn’t have it “out” for any franchise or fan base. He’s an honest guy, and fans don’t deal well with honesty.
by Dorn on Jul 16, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I believe though Law depends on minor league stats a little too much. Pitchers usually learn more pitches in the big leagues and thus can improve themselves.
I agree and respectfully disagree. Pitchers can improve at the MLB level.
With Karstens, if his ability really improved this dramatically, you’d see it in his peripherals. He’d strike out farm more batters than he does. You don’t have to strike out 10 batters per game to succeed in the majors but it’s almost impossible to sustain success when you strike out so few.
It’s not stubborn to claim he’s “learned to pitch” and completely disregard an improved defense and low BABIP?
Jair Jurrjens....
is much younger, but statistically numbers very close to Karstens. JK has lower BB/9 rate and much higher HR/9. Both have high LOB% and Karstens a slightly better BABip. K/9 very similar.
Not criticizing, but haven’t seen anyone talk about Jurrjens in a similar fashion.
The Hammer Speaks
Extra Innings
Twitter: @DTonPirates and @hammerspeaks
Actually, fangraphs HAS talked about Jurrjens in a similar fashion.
They discussed whether he does in fact induce weak contact, and if he’s due for either just plain old regression or severe regression.
Thanks...
I’ll look for it. Have a link?
The Hammer Speaks
Extra Innings
Twitter: @DTonPirates and @hammerspeaks
Except Law is the only one declaring absolutes and disregarding things
the strand rate and babip seem to be unsustainable but you can’t argue he isn’t pitching brilliantly.
skeptical
we all really want this to be the new karstens, and hope that he continues to be this good. while he has gotten lucky, i think that he is for real. well i hope. either way im lovin me some karstens.
I think that Bob Tewksbury is an apt comparison. He was a marginal stuff, awesome command kind of guy. His K/9 stats are worse that Karstens’, and he clearly had a few consecutive good years.
Well then again, Bob's career FIP was better than his career ERA
His strand rate was under 73% and his BABIP over .275 in every full year besides his magical 1992 season, he averaged .71 HR/9 for his career as well, slightly over HALF of Karstens 1.35 number. I’m guessing he was a severe ground ball pitcher as well with that HR/9 rate. Bob, even when he defied projections in 92, had a 3.14 FIP, so clearly even advanced metrics had him as expected to pitch well.
I don't follow stats, but
having seen command, excellent control and smart pitching without great peripherals, I’d look at Randy Jones as a comp. Remember how Jones used to drive the Bucs crazy with an 82 mph fastball and a little hook?
My heros have always been Steelers...
Karstens
This debate, ideally, shouldn’t be so polarized. He’s clearly better than he used to be, but he’s also clearly not one of the best pitchers in baseball. His ERA is certainly an illusion (ridiculously low BAbip, ridiculously high LOB%), but his xFIP is league average, about 0.9 runs better than his career mark.
If you look at his PitchFX charts, he’s basically made the same change that Charlie Morton has. Over the last two years he’s gone from throwing a four-seamer to pounding the zone with a two-seamer. The result has been a drastic decrease in walks, a significant increase in groundballs, and a slight increase in Ks (due partly to the movement on the two-seamer, but mostly just a residual result of throwing more strikes).
Those are real improvements that have resulted from a clear change in tactics. There’s no reason to think that’s a fluke. At the same time, the new approach didn’t come with magic dust that’s going to keep his BAbip low and his strand rate high. He still doesn’t have great stuff, and he’s homer prone. But he looks like a decent #4-5 starter, which is a marked improvement over what he used to be, which was a replacement-level long reliever.
oh, and
NH should be on the phone gauging trade interest in this guy. If there’s a team out there valuing him as a reliable #3-4, he should probably be traded.
couldn't someone
have this same discussion about our entire starting rotation?
Jamie Moyer, anyone?
There’s a pretty clear line of improvement between age 28 and 30, especially given he didn’t even pitch in the majors his age 29 year.
I’d take 18 more years of this Karstens.
Karstens is the role model for working fast. Correia is pretty good too. Maholm and Morton drive me crazy as just the opposite. As for throwing strikes, you have to add that his pitches have a lot of movement on them . He’s throwing strikes with variable movement, almost like a knuckle baller. And of course he appranetly throws from 56 to 90 MPH. Add to that one more thing. That he’s learned how to varry his release point, which also keeps batters off-balance. Almost all of those HR’s he’s given up have been meaningless, solo shots….I love what Kartstens is doing, and it does remind me of Maddox, although not bearly as much movement.
I don’t know if I like that, I wasn’t such a big fan of Tommy Maddox
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 17, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I wrote that in an e-mail to a friend
while discussing Karstens. It was in relation to Zane Smith.
"I'll just enjoy watching him take the ball every fifth day and see how it plays out."
Could’ve saved a whole lotta writing by putting this first, since it’s about all anyone can do.
Good piece, though, David.
P.S. – I’ve had faith in Frankarsteins the whole time.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
One quibble
His career stats as a RP vs. SP were very different pre-2011 – he was about 1/3 run better per FIP and xFIP in ‘09 and ’10 as a starter. That was one of the ironies of keeping him as a reliever – he was actually less valuable in that role, but he was extra-valuable as a 6th starter (very few RPs get more effective when thrown into starting), so it becomes a wash. In the event, his signing has proven to be perhaps the best one of the offseason (don’t forget that some people objected to it).
Actually – and I shouldn’t say this with Vlad so rarely around of late – of the 3 signings (plus one non-signing) that Vlad talked about the most, he was only right about Overbay. In fairness, he was furious about Overbay, and it has proven to be an awful signing. But he was just as wrong about Karstens, Correia, and Duke. No recollection how he felt about Diaz, although there seemed to be consensus around here that it was a good sign – I don’t recall anyone really opposed (someone was arguing a week or two ago that Diaz was playing better; true or not, he’s been essentially replacement level on the year. It’s hard to significantly underperform a $2M salary, but he has, big time).
On the dogs that didn’t bark (acquisitions Vlad lobbied for but didn’t happen), Hardy would be a half win improvement over Ronny, while Orlando Hudson seems to have reached the end of his line, with a wOBA of .292 and slightly negative defense.
Diaz has an...
OPS+ of 88. He is a platoon outfielder signed for $2 million. There is no way that is “significantly underperforming.”
Also, I think we all agree Overbay has generally been bad this year. But, his OPS+ is now 90. For me it is much more about his disappointing defense than his offense. He has a hot two weeks and he is going to be league average. What a positive change that would be.
The Hammer Speaks
Extra Innings
Twitter: @DTonPirates and @hammerspeaks
Diaz is a rounding error from Replacement Level
IOW, we should be able to get roughly equivalent performance from any $400K MiL OF.
So basically you....
are worried that the Pirates misspent $1.5 million. That seems to be me as if it should be a very small concern in the big picture, while ignoring the fact that we don’t seem to have that righthanded minor league bat in the system.
The Hammer Speaks
Extra Innings
Twitter: @DTonPirates and @hammerspeaks
Although, looking at it through the lens of alternatives...
The Overbay signing was actually the best option that could have been chosen from the alternatives at the time. The free agent alternatives that I remember were Derrek Lee and Adam LaRoche, and the internal option that Vlad wanted to go with was a John Bowker/Steve Pearce platoon.
True, Overbay has not performed in line with his $5M contract, but it sure looks like the Pirates would be a worse team had they gone with a different option.
by MarkInDallas on Jul 18, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I hold the extremely unpopular opinion
Of trade him if you can get more than fair value. He’s improved, but he is not as good as his ERA.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
by Kosstic518 on Jul 17, 2011 9:53 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
In Reality
He is worth more to Pittsburgh than to anyone else. No team will look at Karstens and trade like he was a CY Young pitcher.
Think Oakland would trade him for Willingham thinking Karstens will fill a need next year? No way.
Think Boston or NY would trade for him thinking he will be in their rotation come October? No way.
If he continues to beat up on bad teams and pitch like a #3 or #4 v. good teams- that is a huge plus for us.
by NHpiratefan on Jul 17, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Generally....
I think this is the point. There is no way a team trades for the level of value that he is giving the Pirates right now. Ride it out as long as possible.
The good thing is he is unlikely to cost more than $3 million no matter how well he pitches the rest of the year. He is making $1.1 million. An increase of 200% in arbitration would be close to unprecedented.
The Hammer Speaks
Extra Innings
Twitter: @DTonPirates and @hammerspeaks
You do wonder if FIP stat isnt perfect though. I agree with the general concept of fielding independent pitching, but aggregating a number from only HR BB HBP IBB and Ks makes Karstens the statistical anomaly since FIP loves Ks and Hates HRs. Greg Maddux had many season he had a large difference between his FIP and ERA and his CAREER BABIP is .281. I think good pitcher actually influence BABIP. While honestly I do think Karstens will regress prob when he actually walks a person then gives a seeing eye hit and then gives up a Homer, I think Karstens is prob stepped up and is no longer the pitcher we thought he would be which is a 5th starter and or long reliever.
I agree with you....
100% on the FIP issue. If you don’t K a lot of batters and give up HRs, FIP will kill you. Generally that is a good principle, but there are some outliers. We’ll see if Karstens actually proves to be one for a longer period of time.
The Hammer Speaks
Extra Innings
Twitter: @DTonPirates and @hammerspeaks
I think it has been shown that pitchers can effect BABIP if batters tend to swing at pitches outside the zone
If a pitcher has a huge strike zone, (a la Glavine), or movement that people still end up hitting when they swing at it after misjudging it, (a la sinkerballers), a person can outperform FIP. I prefer SIERA personally, because SIERA even takes into account so much more stuff.
the problem
The problem is that you can’t tell who’s going to outperform BAbip/FIP until they actually do it over a very large sample. There’s no way to know if Karstens, for instance, can consistently post low BAbips or outperform his FIP. Considering that the odds are against it in general and he’s shown no ability to do it other than this year, the smart money is on him not being one of those guys.
I could cherry-pick stats that “prove” Karstens is one of the best pitchers in baseball. I could also cherry-pick stats that "prove " he’s one of the worst. ’Nuff said
"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente
si.com
front story at the moment from Sheehan, which kind of meanders, but does weigh, slightly, on this issue. His contention is pitching (I guess including Karstens) is league-average, and the big story is the improved defense.
Personally, given the bad luck in player development the bucs have been dealt (and sometimes deserved), if Karstens is Bautista, it’s nice to have taken an eventual gem from the Yankees like that.

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