Is it now OR later?
by vanslyke on Jul 19, 2011 9:20 AM EDT
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PrintWhile it is fun to speculate who we are pursuing at the trade deadline (and even more fun to put together our players for trade scenarios), there is an underlying issue that paints all of our opinions - is it now or later?
My opinion is that we go for it now. Here is why:
1. You cannot guarantee we will be in a pennant race next year or at any time in the future.
We have no idea how the drafts for the other team in the divisions pan out. We have no idea if one of the other teams in our division decide to increase payroll and actively pursue Type A impact free agents. There is no guarantee that baseball stays aligned in the current division structure regardless of what Coonley says. No matter how well our future players project, the majority of our crop of good young players are in AA or below. There is no way of knowing who will actually produce at the MLB level. Oh, and of course you have injuries (aka Strasburg).
2. We have several key players coming back from injury
One of the arguments against "now" is that we have too many holes to fill. Well, Pearce coming back fills in a need for 1B. Based on his production at the time of his injury and his production during his rehab stint and we may just have upgraded our 1B internally.
3B - Pedro Alvarez. It is obvious that there has been some regression, but at the same time, he is a legitimate home run threat. Can we live with his defense and strikeouts is the question. This in my opinion is one of the bigger wild cards. Pearce production and flexibility is one of the biggest keys to our success in that we can plug him in one hole (1B or 3B) and acquire the bat for the other hole.
Outfield - Solved. When Tabata comes back, you run out an outfiled with Tabata, McCutchen and Pressley. That is a speedy outfield with good defense that constitutes the top half of your lineup. I don't see a need here. Your 4th outfielder would be Paul/Diaz toss up. Jones could platoon with Pearce at 1B with Pearce starting at first against tough lefties and a Wood/Harrison scenario at 3B if Alvarez cannot hit his way back up the roster. All of this is contigent on not getting the "bat" in a trade.
SS - Say what you want, but Cedeno has proved he can field consistently. d'Arnaud is intriguing, but like all rookies needs to learn consistency. d'Arnaud could be a good bench guy to learn the ropes as a fill in or pinch run guy. Plus he keeps Cedeno on his toes.
Catcher - The "Fort" has been a solid replacement and could make a nice platoon situation with Doumit. It would be nice to get Doumits bat back in the lineup 3-4 times a week.
3. Nutting has stated that we may increase payroll
This allows us to make an acquisition for money without having to "mortgage our future". There are several teams hurting financially and for once, maybe the small market could provide some financial relief and some B prospects for that bat.
We have no guarantee of future success. Obviously I am not advocating making a move for the sake of a move, but with all things being equal, we are one or two bats away. We can address one internally and one externally. I say we make a move and make a run while we can. There is no guarantee for
tomorrow.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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+1
Pedro’s bat is heating up just fine down there in AAA and he should be ready for the Monday Night Showdown.
His
numbers look fine. The question is, has his approach and bat speed really improved to where he can hit ML pitching, or is he feasting on AAA guys. We need a scouting report to really know.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 19, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Now is now. Later is later.
One cannot focus solely on later at the expense of now because later is not a guarantee.
However, one cannot ignore later to focus solely on now, because while later is not guaranteed, later may in fact become now.
If the time comes that later becomes now but one has focused only on the now that has since become the before, it is then you are screwed.
Hope this helps.
As the candy proves, the two aren't mutually exclusive
The Pirates can make some moves to augment the team for the rest of this year and stay in the NL Central hunt without giving away any of their top prospects or intriguing young MLBers (Tabata, Presley). Plus, as you pointed out, the cavalry is on its way just from guys getting healthy who are already in the organization.
Very nice post
1. I completely agree. Too many people on here believe our young guys are going to be a huge impact. Any of them could end up like Alvarez. Great one moment and the next really struggling. Big learning curve in the major league level. Pirates are in the race and should try to go for it this year!
2. Yes we have plenty of guys coming back from injuries and could also make or break the Pirates who have played better with replacement type guys. Tabata worries me. I don’t think he is healthy and I believe that is why ownership is looking for an outfielder. I have liked Overbay as of late. I could see Pearce and Jones playing there some but most time given to Lyle.
3. I believe they will increase payroll from here on out. Cutch deserves his contract. Fans would like to see more players retire as a Pirate especially when they come through the minors. Good to see some change.
by Joey Mooney on Jul 19, 2011 10:03 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
sorry, but youre not going to see many players retire as pirates...
i guarantee you that even Cutch goes elsewhere eventually.
by white angus on Jul 19, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
It is a nice thought though!
by Joey Mooney on Jul 19, 2011 12:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Can we make a run without Pedro
I believe we can, but Pearce has to step in and rake.
The only time you go for broke is when you really do need just one piece to compete in the playoffs.
Like the Rangers last year, they went out and got Cliff Lee so they could match up well in the playoffs and it worked for them. They didn’t need to get him for the regular season, which they would have won anyway. They gave up a good first base prospect to get him. Luckily, they had another and were dealing from a position of strength, so weren’t hurt in the long term by the move. Ultimately,that’s what the goal should be, to have enough prospects so that losing one doesn’t kill your chances to compete in the future.
The Pirates are a decent team right now, maybe even a good team. But no matter who they might get in a trade right now, it’s going to take a lot of luck for them to beat out the cards and brewers, let alone the phils and braves in the first two rounds of playoffs.
I think there are just to many hurdles to get overly excited (don’t get me wrong, I’m very excited). Let’s see where the guys coming back take us. The only thing I would do is get Aramis Ramirez if you could get him without top prospects going out. He’s already said he’s not doing that. Carlos Pena maybe. Other than that, just some bullpen help so we have some more confidence in the 8th inning.
What?
You go against what you just said. Let’s get guys to come back from injury and see what they can do but let’s get 8th inning help? Meek? Who is more proven than anyone hurt right now as being a great 8th inning guy. The pirates could use another late inning guy and another bat. But if the Pirates got rid of Marte for an impact player do you think Cutch, Tabata, Presley, Lambo, Gorky, would be enough for the next 5 years? I say yes. They could draft an outfielder next year. Plenty of guys can fill in.
by Joey Mooney on Jul 19, 2011 11:05 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Relievers generally vary more year-to-year than position players
I think we all have some idea of how Doumit, Pearce, Cedeno and Tabata will perform when they’re back. (Pedro, who knows?) But when you consider how uninspiring Meek was before his DL stint – and yes, he was hurt – it seems risky to put too much faith in him coming back in 2010 mode when we haven’t seen that mode since, well, 2010.
Mortgage the future?
What does that even mean? Who in the history or baseball has ever done that? We need a proven bat. A proven bat would add stability to our lineup and back up the performances by out pitchers when they start giving up more runs down the stretch.
Why does everyone think NH is a moron all of a sudden? We are talking a piece or two. Why not trade a top 5 prospect for one of those pieces? Do we really think that trading an Allie or a Tabata is going to cripple us in the future?
Who is to say we can’t compete with the Phillies or Braves? When was the last time they dominated us this year? Oh ya, they didnt. We have the pitching to compete with their ptiching – it is our offense that cannot compete with their offense straight up.
Milwaukee this year? Decimated their entire farm system for a shot at competing this year.
And sure, we’ve been competing with them so far. That’s supposing a few of our pitchers keep playing phenomenally over their talent levels.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 19, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Here we go again
…apologizing for our success just because it doesn’t fit neatly in our sabermetrics.
The reality is that our pitchers have been playing phenomenally. You cannot completely quantify talent level. Morton was toolsy, but really struggled until this year. Maybe we are seeing Morton with a realized talent level that is the norm as opposed to his previous body of work.
JMac, Karstens, Presley – what is the sabermetric for “getting it”. We are not dealing with a computer simulation – we are dealing with real life.
"We are not dealing with a computer simulation – we are dealing with real life."
Wherein most of our pitchers are going to be many, many innings over their career highs in IP.
So, we should burn their arms off?
Dusty, it that you? Tell the truth.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 19, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
So we had no plan in place to compete this year?
Our success completely suprised the FO. We were planning on bringing up 5 brand new starters in September because we are saving the pitching staff for a title run in 2012 and beyond? We were going to send all of our pitchers to the fall leagues or bring them in to spring training early so they can get better conditioning and could pitch 50 more innings in September of next year when we are in this same position?
Outside of Maholm and Correia, we are dealing with a young pitching staff who have not even had a large body of work let alone ever reached their potential for innings pitched! I say we are in a race and we actually utilize our talen to win games.
So,
what are you saying?
Use Morton, J-Mac and Karstens until they keel over?
Bring up Lincoln, Owens and others to start games in a division race?
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 19, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I would not be surprised to see us work a six man rotation at times down the stretch when off days don’t give us a break. Lincoln or possibly Ohlendorf (if he makes it back) could see a few starts to help ease the load.
CH already showed us how he handled fatigue
Why couldn’t he repeat that?
Point is, you’re more than a piece or two away from being a really competitive team. And if you acquire all that you need to compete, depth included, you’re going to have to give up a good chunk of future pieces.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 19, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree. When this team plays well, they can beat the best…ask the Phillies and Red Sox.
Yes, they are not as consistent, but adding a couple of extra pieces at reasonable prices (prices that do not include Taillon, Cole, Pedro etc) then you make that move. If this team wins the central or at least gives it a serious try, we will have a much better off season finding guys to fill the holes for next year. Players will want to come play for the Pirates.
disagree
Players will want to come play for the Pirates.
it will take two to three years of consistent contenteding baseball to draw in good FA’s. one year wont do it, they like the rest of the baseball world will look at it as a flash in the pan
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
We can do both
We can improve this team without mortgaging the future. Plus please try to remember that we are going to lose prospects in the Rule 5 draft for nothing. We have a surplus that we can not protect, so we unload a couple and simply replace them with some of the guys who were just going to miss the cut. Or if we deal with the Didgers again, we give them guys we didn’t really want anyway. lol Moves will be made. NH himself said we may trade players who will raise eyebrows. he did in the past with McLouth and that turned out just fine. Have faith in NH. He will get the job done. We may not make the playoffs, but we should at least make a serious attempt without giving up any of our top 5 or 6 minor league guys (Taillon, Allie, Sanchez, Marte, Cole).
+.5
I am OK with giving up a top 5 if it gets us something more than a rental – preferably at 1st or 3rd. Now I realize that is like hunting dragons, but at the same time nothing should be off the table. Why would we sit on our chips when we acquired the chips to move when we were contending?
This “well we can move them next year when we contend” is BS. There are no guarantees. We have today and today we are in first place.
Like I said previously, NH is not a moron all of sudden and isn’t going to trade our top 5 picks for Hunter Pence. If he did pull something off for an established start with 2 years of control and a top 5 came off the board, I would be happy.
Why does everyone think NH is a moron all of a sudden?
People have mostly thought NH was a moron prior to this. It is only now that they see the results of his plan that they are questioning that belief.
Why not trade a top 5 prospect for one of those pieces?
Because smaller market teams have to build internally, and so therefore their prospects are far more valuable to them than they are to larger market teams that can afford to pay significant dollars in free agency for the pieces they need.
Do we really think that trading an Allie or a Tabata is going to cripple us in the future?
Some on here do, yes, while some do not. That’s why some of these threads go for 100’s of posts of back-and-forth discussion about the right path to take.
Who is to say we can’t compete with the Phillies or Braves? We have the pitching to compete with their ptiching
No, we don’t. You can have the Pirates and their staff and I will take the Phillies and Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay and Cole Hamels in a short series, and I will bet almost anything that I will be moving on to the next round while you watch from the comfort of your couch.
Blind squirrels do occasionally find nuts, but they usually wind up starving to death.
Since the Phillies have a better rotation we should do nothing.....
…..but crown them champions. Last time I checked we took 2 out of 3 against them. To stand pat on our team because another team has better players and are built for a playoff run is just stupid – especially when the premise is we have young talent in the minors. Last time I checked, none of our prospects have played an inning of major league ball and are nothing but projections and upside.
The premise that trading a top 5 pick for a non-rental player and it crippling the franchise is absurd. So many other factors (injuries, missed projections, other trades, financial concerns)would have to come into play for that to be the case. In addition, a proven player today with control today is worth a top 5 prospect tomorrow when you are in a pennant race.
It almost seems that we are apologizing for winning and calling it “luck”. The reality is that we are in first place and to stay there we need offense.
And we need the pitching to keep up
If you go out and get a power bat, then Jeff Karstens turns into a pumpkin, J-Mac loses the strike zone, Correia continues his downward trend and fatigue issues kill Morton, then where are you at? The only player on this staff who has had an entire season with quality results is Maholm (2008, 206 IP, 114+ ERA).
It’s very possible this pitching staff just falls apart. To say that all we need is a bat and we’re on equal ground with the Phillies when we beat them in one three-game series seems to be putting too much faith in this staff.
If, If, If, If
What IF this happens and we stand pat? The reality is that we are in first place. We can pull out all of the statistics and show that 4 of our 5 starters are “lucky”, but at the end of the day we are in first place.
By your logic, we should just quit because we are going fail. Statistics bear this out and they are always right.
We should call CH and NH and tell them that what we are doing is unsustainable and even if we make a playoff run the Phillies are going to beat us.
I'm not saying stand pat
I’d love to get Pena, Willingham or someone cheap. I’d love to make a trade for someone who can help long-term. I’m not okay with trading Alex Presley or Tony Sanchez for two months Carlos Beltran.
I’m also not saying we are going to fail, but assuming this pitching is going to keep up and all we need is a bat to win the World Series is seriously flawed thinking.
By the way, the Rays took over first place in 2008 the same day we did. They didn’t make the big trade, and they did okay, and they’re still doing okay because they didn’t mortgage their future. You shouldn’t make a move just to make a move.
Two arguments I never made
1. Trade a top tier prospect for a rental
2. Make a move for a move’s sake
Why can’t we assume that the pitching is going to stay constant? I’m not naive to think Karstens can pitch 5 consecutive 83 pitch shutouts, but whose to say he has become a better pitcher? Same for the other starters?
we cant assume anything. plus we cant assume that the pitching stays healthy.
other than ohlendorf, the rotation has been unscathed.
The massive increase in IP for the starters
gives me great concern. Both for the remainder of this year, and for the team next year. Remember when Dusty rode Prior and Wood almost to the World Series, and then their 2 aces crumbled and the Cubs still aren’t right. This is my fear. I would rather miss the playoffs this year, and be in competition for teh next 4 or 5 than make a run to the NLCS and then lose for another 10 years.
Sprint vs. Marathon
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 19, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
What?
It’s not like we are starting them on 3 days rest. Sure their innings are increasing. They should. They are competent MLB pitchers for goodness sake. CH isnt a dummy. He will handle the increase.
ITs been shown that a >25% increase on IP
from one year to the next exponential increases the risk to fatigue in teh current year and injury in later years. Mortgaging the future for the present isn’t just about prospects.
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 20, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
You wrote…
A proven bat would add stability to our lineup and back up the performances by out pitchers when they start giving up more runs down the stretch.
…to which I respond that a proven bat MIGHT add stability to our lineup and MIGHT back up the performances by our pitchers when they MIGHT start giving up more runs down the stretch.
You take it almost on faith that by simply plugging a Carlos Beltran or Hunter Pence into the lineup automatically is going to make a difference. Those guys could get injured, they could just stop hitting or they could become hated in the clubhouse which leads to an unfortunate “accident” involving Pedro Ciriaco and a fungo bat. Their presence could disrupt the chemistry of the team, which has, to this point, played pretty decently.
For as much as you say that nothing is a given with prospects and the future, nothing is given with bringing these guys in.
they could become hated in the clubhouse which leads to an unfortunate "accident" involving Pedro Ciriaco and a fungo bat. Their presence could disrupt the chemistry of the team, which has, to this point, played pretty decently
C’mon now. I get that this was meant as a joke, but people cite this stuff all the time as a reason to not bring in new blood, and I think it’s a total strawman.
How many times can anyone remember that a new player has seriously led to clubhouse disputes or ruined a team’s “chemistry”? These guys are professionals, they can play together.
That was totally a joke.
And as much as I don’t believe terribly much in “chemistry”, there is something to be said for maintaining consistency. If Pence or Beltran is brought in, either Presley or Tabata have to sit, and some players MAY consider that unfair, as it was those guys who brought the Pirates to the point they are currently at. Not saying they will tank or give less than 100% effort, but there could be some resentment. Is it enough to derail the season? Probably not, but the team seems to be perfectly happy and close right now.
Another point I want to make is that I am not fundamentally against making a deal, but the idea that they have to make a deal for a “power bat”, regardless of the consequence, is not something that I fully embrace. That’s me; others are of differing opinion, and that is fine. If we all thought the same, this would be a very boring place, nothing more than an echo chamber for our groupthink.
I know you were joking.
So sorry if it seemed like I was jumping down your throat. I just think the concept of “team chemistry” is pretty overblown. Aside from some real outliers — the Milton Bradleys and Carlos Zambranos of the world — I think guys just want teammates who play hard and help the team win.
I mean, hypothetically, if you’re Alex Presley, would you rather be “Guy who got called up and played every day for the second-place-finishing Bucs” or “Guy who was a very important role player for the first Pirates team to make the playoffs in two decades” ? Can’t speak for him of course, but I think most guys would prefer team success.
Let's deal with the reality
We are in first place. We need offense. We acquire a proven offense contributor.
This does not mean we win, but this is what teams in a race do – they better themselves. Now Cutch could blow a hammy or Morton could cut himself on a guitar string – if, if, if, if……
We need to improve and we have the chips to do it. No one would fault NH for doing the right thing if that right thing happened to be injured…..
We're
in this damn race because so far, somehow our Honda Civic has kept up with a Ferrari, Maserati, and a Buggatti (Cardinals, Reds, Brewers). Yes, that’s probably not the perfect analogy, but their is a talent descrepency.
The reality, as you can keep on insisting we look at, is the Civic is currently in first place. The other three cards are on our damn tail though. Looking at that scenario, the Civic probably won’t win with about half the race (just under) left to go. Adding one nitros boost that we buy on the side of the road may give us a little boost, but it’s far from a guarentee to help us win the race. Smart money is on one of the other three cars.
Luckily, we have $100,000 dollars stashed away to buy a new car for the race next year, but you want us to spend $20,000 on it for that nitros boost and a shot to win this year. Btw, winning this year gives us a small boost in cash, but it’s enough for a new paint job. It also enters us in the finals race, but we are even more of a longshot to win that, even though our nitros boost has a second charge to use during that race.
Personally, I’ll pass on that damn nitros charge and look to buy the $100,000 car for the next race. That way, next year or in the 2014 race, I can then add a few nitros charges to a better car, and give myself a much better chance at winning that race than this one. In addition, I’ll have a better chance at also winning the finals race.
This year, I’ll shell out $50 (Josh Willingham, Carlos Pena) for a box of some really sharp nails I can throw behind my car. Of course, if somehow over the next bit of the race before the nitros shop, I gain some more distance, I’d be more inclined to consider it.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 19, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I enjoyed the analogy
We will have to agree to disagree. There is no guarantee we will be in a race next year due to the fact that we have extra $$ stashed. Prospects are an unproven commodity. For analogy sake let’s say that we are having Mercedes provide us with a concept car that ran on a test track faster than a Ferrari, Masserati and Buggatti, but is not proven in an actual race.
Not making a real effort to win this year might make our sponsor pull out and then there goes our money for the new car. Win when you can. Especially when you are the Pirates.
If
we really wanna get technical and make this analogy work… We don’t have 100,000$ in sponser money or in cash. It’s in stocks. Some of the stock is currently more valuable, has more upside, etc. The nitros guy takes stock, as well as the nail guy. I’d much rather sell some of the cheaper stock with low upside (Gorkys, Brett Lorin, Diego Moreno) to the nail guy for nails, than the better stuff (Allie, Marte) for nitros.
Hypothetically, we could sell only stock that absolutely crashes, and therefore actually had the same amount of money/value as if we hadn’t traded at all, plus the nitros. That is a fear because the stock is risky and voliatle. However, that’s what I’m a big proponent of keeping and stashing away as much stock as you can, especially the high upside stuff, to try and get a nice ride. Then get the nice ride, and sell some of the more high upside stuff you got for the nitros then.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 19, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
You can have the Pirates and their staff and I will take the Phillies and Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay and Cole Hamels in a short series, and I will bet almost anything that I will be moving on to the next round while you watch from the comfort of your couch.
Really? You’d bet “almost anything” that they’d take a five-game series?
If we’re simulating this series 1,000 times, then yeah, they probably win the series 700some times. But it only gets played once, and because of that, it’s very possible that a weaker team can get past a better team in the playoffs.
In theory, I want to agree with you, Bishop. But my concern is that, looking at our chances in the future, I don’t think a team like the Buccos is EVER going to look absolutely dominant when compared on paper to huge market teams. I mean, I suppose that if Cole, Allie, Taillon, and Heredia all reach 100% of their potential then we might, but we all know the likelihood of that is somewhat slim. So if we wait to make our big push until we’re actually favorites, we might be waiting a long time.
I don't think I did a very good job explaining myself
But do you guys get what I mean? Every year there’s always going to be some team, whether it’s the Phils or the Cards or the Giants or whoever that looks way ahead of the pack. And give our market/payroll/general situation, it’s probably not likely to be us. When we have good teams, they’re going to be good because of young, cost-controlled talent, not because we got the best free agents available.
So I agree with you fully, Bishop, that on paper I don’t like our odds of going up against the Phils in the playoffs this year, but on the other hand, if the opportunity presents itself, we may need to just make a run at it and hope luck stays with us.
I simply
disagree with that premise. The Rays won the AL East in a similar situation (market size, possible talent infusion, etc.) and have been competitive since. I promise you that year they won they would have looked dominat on paper compared to the NL central.
That’s why we’re fortunate, and other small market teams like the Rays, Baltimore, even the Royals and A’s (White Sox, Tigers, Twins; Rangers, Angels) have a tougher task.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 19, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
well, to be fair
the discussion was about beating the Phils or Braves in the playoffs.
The larger point is, really: is it only worth it to make a serious run at playoffs/championship if you actually think you’re the best team on paper?
Personally, I’d say that the playoffs in baseball have probably a larger element of random chance than most other sports — reason being that the best players are truly differentiated from the merely good players over long periods of time. So while we can all agree that Pujols is leagues above, say, Brandon Wood in their respective ability to hit a baseball, none of us would be (that) shocked if in the upcoming series Wood went 6-12 and Pujols went 1-12. That’s the kind of thing that can happen in small samples.
So I’m saying that even if we only actually think we have, say, a 20% chance of making the playoffs and a 10% chance of winning the subsequent playoff series, maybe those are odds that are still worth playing.
The larger point is, really: is it only worth it to make a serious run at playoffs/championship if you actually think you’re the best team on paper?
When you are a small market team with a tiny margin of error.. Yes. You can’t afford to make mistakes, and trading prospects for a veteran who’s gonna walk out the door sooner rather than later is a big risk. If we were the Yankees, sure go for it. We aren’t.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 19, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Lets not forget the 1960 World Series
Walker is the new Maz! Coincidence they found that tape this year? I say not!
by Joey Mooney on Jul 19, 2011 12:04 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
IMO
Trading for “rental” players is not a very good idea. I do not like the Beltran acquisition very much — we cannot offer him arbitration, and as such his free agent status means nothing. We’d have to give up very little for this to make sense to me.
If we can obtain a player (or players) that fit our team for the next couple of years…you’re not “mortgaging our future” at all. If we are able to acquire a player with some remaining team control (let’s say Brandon Allen from ARI — just as an example), you are giving up some A-ball or AA-ball players for a guy on the doorstep, and one that could produce for a few years.
I just think that the trades have to make sense, both short- and long-term.
but is brandon allen ready NOW to help the team go for the division?
you can actually say the same thing about aquiring a beltran or a pena. will they help the team win or will they be an expensive reason to not do this…
do you stand pat, keep the chemistry, or go for broke?
this will easily be NH’s biggest challenge since becoming the GM.
I'm glad the folks commenting here don't
make the decision re. the team acquisitions or deletions. If they did, we would face more years of frustration and not competing. Everything is going fine and I think the fo will do the right things. If we start to lose again, then obviously, they need to rethink and retool.
Tom Specht
That is just the question...
….do we go for it now or just stand pat and hope we are in this same position with homegrown players next year and subsequent years?
i think its a combination of both...
win or lose over the next 2 weeks, i think the FO still makes some moves
I don't know why they're mutually exclusive...
Ideally, we can do both. Trade prospects that would be lost in the Rule 5 draft for a rental or something just to get value out of them rather than lose them for nothing OR trade some better pieces for a player under team control for a couple years who can help the major league club now and in subsequent years.
Do you realize that you just DFA'd Overbay in your scenario?
Not that there’s anything wrong with that……
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
i read dfa'd overbay
and smiled…then i read the whole comment and now iz sad again
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
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