Pirates 1, Reds 0: Bucs' Pitching Does It Again
The offense didn't do much of anything, mustering only four hits in eight innings, and the Pirates ran into a couple of additional outs on the bases, as Xavier Paul and Alex Presley were caught stealing. (I can't fault Clint Hurdle much for trying to make things happen, but Ryan Hanigan has a good arm, so the chances the Pirates weren't necessarily the best ones.)
Still, though - great game. James McDonald had seven strikeouts in 6.1 innings, but left with an awful jam in the seventh, as he suddenly lost his ability to throw strikes and allowed a walk, an infield single and another walk, loading the bases with one out. This led to a funny scene in which the PNC crowd (another enthusiastic one) was on its feet cheering for him, and his teammates were giving him high fives, while he was ranting to himself and obviously pretty upset. Hurdle brought in Joe Beimel, who LOOGY'ed Jay Bruce to perfection, then brought in Chris Resop, who got Drew Stubbs to finish the job. Resop pitched the eighth, and then Joel Hanrahan finished things off in the ninth despite allowing two singles.
While I hate to take pleasure in the suffering of others, it was great to see Joey Votto so obviously upset with himself after striking out three times. And another nice thing about taking the first two from the Reds is that it bumps Cincinnati to five games out of first. The Reds are still in the race, but anything the Pirates can do to make this more of a three-team fight than a four-team fight increases their chances.
Scoreboard watch: the Cardinals lost 4-2 to the Mets, and the Brewers have an early lead on the Diamondbacks.
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Good point.
We’ve been paying so much attention to the Cards and Brewers, that the Reds have been an afterthought. If the Bucs win tomorrow, the Reds are 6 games out with three teams to leapfrog. They might turn into sellers by the end of the week.
jay bruce
is the only affordable bat that comes to mind
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Bruce would be anything but affordable.
He’s their Cutch.
Rolen or Hernandez could be interesting adds (not for us, though).
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
ARE YOU F#$%ING KIDDING ME!!!! ADAMS!!! JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST YOU HAD 24 SQUARE FEET AND YOU MISSED IT ALL!! - OlenWhitaker
Certified Grabbo Lover, though only by accident.
I love lots of guys. - leaflover4ever
Betancourt HR?
Really, Barry Enright
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Jul 19, 2011 9:58 PM EDT reply actions
?
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Jul 19, 2011 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
well well well
amazing we keep winning without Pence and Pena.
it wasn't long ago
when many of the experts here were against bringing up AP, he’s too small, average fielder, blah blah blah.
Nobody was against bringing Presley up, the opinion was just that he would probably be no more than a fourth outfielder. And 18 games does not change the fact that he will, in all likelihood, be a fourth outfielder.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 20, 2011 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey Charlie
What’s are your thoughts on Hague? Do you think he deserves a shot?
I’m not overly concerned about him either way. I wouldn’t mind if they brought him up, but it might be hard to carve out a role for him once Pearce comes back in a few days anyway.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 19, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Why are fans so high on Pearce?
I don’t get it.
Good splits, and he was starting to pull it together before he hurt himself both this year and last. It’s a shame, really.
Thank you Ned Colletti.
Pearce is 28 years old
His lifetime BA is .246 with 9 total Hrs in 426 at bats. His lifetime OBP is .316. I’m not impressed.
Look below at his LHP splits and be impressed.
by MarkInDallas on Jul 20, 2011 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
but he stinks against righties
and has no power on either side
Career .146 isolated power, puts him right around Walker in terms of power. And a career .228 ISO against lefties, which is around what Adrian Gonzalez and Carlos Beltran have provided overall so far this year.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 20, 2011 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Pearce .217 batting average against RHP
Adrian Gonz .302.
What does that have to do with power? You said Pearce had no power, I showed that he does. Especially since he will not be a full time player.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 20, 2011 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions
i'm okay with him hitting against LHP
but against rhp he stinks, Hague is hitting .346 against RHP AND Overbay is hitting .224.
And nobody is talking about playing him against RHP, except sporadically. He would most likely platoon with Jones in right or at first, pending Presley and trade acquisitions.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 20, 2011 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Hague is hitting .346 against RHP
this year with an OBP of .412. So play him against righties and Pearce against lefties.
I would agree with this.
But, it’s something that would be an experiment. Last year, the Texas Rangers simultaneously got 1B help in trade and brought up Mitch Moreland after dealing Smoak. That worked out for them.
by MarkInDallas on Jul 20, 2011 3:26 AM EDT up reply actions
OPS of nearly .800 vs. LH pitching.
and a decent bat off the bench
by bbautista24 on Jul 19, 2011 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Pearce has hit LHPs very well every time up in MLB.
So, it’s really that simple.
by MarkInDallas on Jul 20, 2011 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Here are Perce's wOBA splits against LHPs
2007 .434
2008 .417
2009 .373
2010 .409
2011 .345
by MarkInDallas on Jul 20, 2011 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
With very impressive ISO numbers, since power is all people seem to care about as of late.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 20, 2011 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions
i dont care about power sorta....
i care about getting a guy at first that isnt a twit in the field and has proven ability to get ROB across the plate. now if the guy has a high iso power avg then great…he gets them home easier…but either way its what we really need.
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 20, 2011 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t care about power either. That was a comment largely in response to the “trade for this guy cause we need power, we are all going to die and the city of Pittsburgh will turn into a black hole and eventually destroy the world if we do not acquire a power bat” type comments that have been so frequent lately.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 20, 2011 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Alex Presley has been the most important offensive player for the Pirates lately
and he has 1 HR.
by MarkInDallas on Jul 20, 2011 3:28 AM EDT up reply actions
But how can he have an OPS over .900 and wOBA over .400 with only 1 HR Mark?
The internet must be broken today.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
Good approach at the plate...
that I think will translate into decent production over a large enough sample. I think he is a player that could put a .330 – .360 wOBA and play very good defense at first. He’s not a star but could be a solid player and we aren’t getting that right now. If the Pirates can bring someone that can outperorm that than fine that’s great. It’s not mad love or anything but I think this guy gets a raw deal because when he finally won the opportunity for an extended look (twice now) he was injured and not able to captialize.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
Wishing won't make it so.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 19, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
2 games by a combined score of 3-0. Incredible.
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto
by blackjackfishtaco on Jul 19, 2011 10:12 PM EDT reply actions
The fans have been awesome.
I was at the game last night (wish I knew you and Vlad were there, Charlie, but I’ve been to DC, Pittsburgh, Vegas, back to Pittsburgh, and now home to Delaware in the last week, so spotty internet), and the atmosphere was simply amazing. People all over the place in and out of the stadium before the game. Clapping and Let’s Go Bucs chants cheering on Charlie in the first (both times), and a ton of fans waiting out 2 hour long rain delays. From what I could tell from TV, it was more of the same tonight.
We give a lotta crap (much of it deserved) to Pirates bashers/bandwagon fans), but the fans have really stepped up. PNC Park is suddenly a great place to be any night of the week. I kept my 2 year old son out to the end on Monday night just because I’ve never seen PNC like that. Keep it going, Bucs
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
i still say
he using the word nutting as a verb
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Brilliant!
I’m going to make a sign saying that and hang it over my bed. Lets see how 2nd dates go then.
Thus Spake Bluecheerathustra
i want pictures of your face after
you take a good right cross to the jaw….hysterical
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
My ex-girlfriend dislocated my jaw once for "pantsing" her.
It was the most painful but simultaneously hilarious thing ever. Unfortunately we didn’t think to take pictures of it. God was that funny.
Thus Spake Bluecheerathustra
pitching great again.
still more offensive help would be nice.
great to see the bucs shutout the best offense in the NL two games in a row, encouraging sign.
Even though both games have been similar, yesterday felt like a win where the team was fortunate to get away with one, while today’s game seemed a lot easier. McDonald was outstanding, and Beimel did a nice job of coming back after being down 2-0 in the count. Hanrahan made me a little nervous, but he got the job done.
The offense obviously did not have it tonight, but I think a lot of that was a product of Leake pitching well. I do hope they can bring the bats out tomorrow. My only other complaint would be Brandon Wood’s poor throws that cost the team two double plays, but he made a nice one in the eighth that makes me think the first two were aberrations.
All in all, good win. Would be outstanding to see a sweep tomorrow, but the series win honestly makes me happy enough.
wood
looks uncomfortable at ss, hard to believe he has a lot of experience playing there
by bbautista24 on Jul 19, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally, I think it’s just because we’ve been somewhat spoiled by Cedeno’s great play defensively(excluding the first week of the season), and just saw d’Arnaud save yesterday’s game in the first inning with that sensational flip, that many of us are tending to judge Wood a little more harshly at short. He’s not amazing there by any means but we could do a lot worse coughDYat2ndcough.
did u see some of his throws....
hes got nothing in that arm man…nothing…looked like slow pitch softballs getting to first tonight
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
could be dead arm
ive seen him on 3B throwing a few lasers to 1B not too long ago.
by white angus on Jul 19, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think he looks uncomfortable...
He’s just not as mobile and athletic as Cedeno and D’Arnaud. Did you say that jump throw last night? A guy who’s uncomfortable at SS doesn’t even try to make that play.
Rewound Baseball tonight to catch the Bucs leading off the show again
Dipshit ended the game commentary by saying Hammer has only blown one save so far this year and shuts the door for another save tonight. Come on man, get your shit together.
Well I'll be damned
Guess thats what happens when your sitting on a train coming back from Baltimore.
Poo :p At least he got the one out of his system.
its kruk
give him a break…hes from kyser…its that wv public edumacation
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you deliberately misspell words in your posts that accuse others of being stupid? :) It’s “Keyser.”
Signed,
A Product Of WV Public Education
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 19, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
no
my maryland public edumication sucks too
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Where is your Maryland Public Education from?
I am product of that system, too.
by Zach Buccos on Jul 19, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
garrett county
western maryland 2hrs south of the burgh, an hour from WVU
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, yeah, well that education does suck haha
Just kidding. Kind of. I’m from Montgomery County, outside of Washington D.C. from Potomac. Heard of it?
by Zach Buccos on Jul 19, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
MOCO! I’ve got a great deal of friends from there.
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto
by blackjackfishtaco on Jul 19, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Springbrook and RMH
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto
by blackjackfishtaco on Jul 20, 2011 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
yup
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Northern or Southern?
I went to a school in somerset county PA. not too far from there
southern
grew up in oakland md. used to play my hockey up in somerset
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you play hockey for Oakton's Hockey Team?
And what years were you there for high school?
by Zach Buccos on Jul 19, 2011 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
didnt have one
had to commute up after school played in mens leagues. 1992-96
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Nevermind
I guess they formed an MSHL team after you graduated. A very good one, too.
by Zach Buccos on Jul 19, 2011 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, I'm working on a project down there
My client is fixing up the house her grandfather built (and that her uncles basically abandoned 20 years ago). Pretty area. Crazy amounts of snow.
My favorite line
is that Maryland should cede its three westernmost counties to West Virginia and raise the IQs of both states.
ok fine!
i will take some time to actually proof read things before i post them. after seeing my numerous spelling failures. tonight its much needed anyways
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
thought Harrisons play on bunt
was the key play, and of course Beimels K.
by Horace Clarke on Jul 19, 2011 10:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
There are A LOT of plays that save the game...
when you win 1-0
question about Hanrahan:
anyone else noticing that hes not reaching 99mph any more? he topped out at 97 just a couple of times the last 3 appearances.
against houston, he sat around 94-95.
yup
but i wouldnt worry about it. dude needs some rest, hopefully we can give him some tomorrow
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah agreed, arm fatigue more than likely, would be nice to score some extra runs once and awhile
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
im leaning towards that conclusion as well...
but thats what most of us thought about Meek too.
by white angus on Jul 19, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
True, but Meek's was a little more drastic, I think.
And at a time when it’s not expected.
Hanny’s coming off a long All-Star break, and he’s still hitting 97. I think he’ll be okay. I guess we’ll see after a few more games.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
he touched 97.
in his last 3 appearances, hes barely hit that mark. before that, he was easily sitting on 97-98.
and now the bats are starting to square up a tad.
hey, im probably just blowing this out of proportion, just an observation on someone i always make sure to watch.
by white angus on Jul 19, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Bats were starting to square him up tonight
Mostly because he was getting the fastball up in the zone, not necessarily because of the velocity drop. The location issues could also be fatigue related, of course.
hey, im just mentioning something i have observed... and this time, i have numbers to back it up...
im sure hes fine.
by white angus on Jul 19, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
97 on PNC's gun...
Is pretty good…Chapman only hit 100 a couple times last night…
EVERY gun is +/- 3 mph in accuracy
But tonight the Reds did make a good adjustment. Hammers been getting into a routine of starting fastball, fastball, the off-speed; so tonight the Reds were swingin first pitch and 2 out of 3 got it. Hammer will make adjustments I bet and throw a slider early next time
"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente
by michaelbro8 on Jul 20, 2011 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
and dont look now but
one a three game winning streak with a grand total of 5….thats right 5 runs given up during that stretch…since the break the bucs have given up 11 total runs in 5 games…all to the friggin stros
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 10:43 PM EDT reply actions
good god
three shutouts since the break…is this really happening?
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Fun at the ballpark tonight.
Good crowd, thought they were s little sedate. Also, took 3-4 innings to fill in. I remember early on in his tenure, FC remarking that Pgh fans arrive late, which I believe surprised him. I think he was right, and it’s still so even with the winning. He said at the time that they like to tailgate. Maybe it’s the 7pm weekday start time, although same thing happens on weekends. Ushers were expecting good crowd tomorrow. Weekend including Sunday is Sro and scattered singles. Should be actress scene.
by Horace Clarke on Jul 19, 2011 10:47 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I wish it was actress scene.
That should be great scene.
by Horace Clarke on Jul 19, 2011 10:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
one can hope
that way they dont show dumb tubby bastards in the stand wearing their hines ward jerseys….
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
rec'd for the Inception reference
well played, mauer
by white angus on Jul 19, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Pedro Ciriaco is my Totem
If I see him in the game I know I’m dreaming.
by Mr. E on Jul 19, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
clearly you havent seen my man card revoked post today
in the another comparrions fanpost
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
hm here are nice stats:
6-3 vs Cubs
9-3 vs Astros
7-1 vs Reds
2-1 vs Cardinals
here are bad stats:
0-5 vs Brewers
I would like to just point out the nice stats are what good teams do to win division titles, take care of things in your own division.
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
Nine more versus Milwaukee,
including the last three games of the season at their place.
by SteelStealth on Jul 19, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
still a ways to go, but yeah we need to handle the Brewers next time around, pretty obvious though
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
If we're gonna actually think about winning the division...
man that’s weird to say — we are gonna have quit taking beatings from the Brewers. Plain and simple.
solution to the brewers.
in game one hit cryin ryan, weeks, and widebody in the head with fastballs…from hammer not some joe beimel fastbals…something with some pop
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I think a big part of the Brewer’s recipe for success vs the Bucs was that they always felt they were clearly the better team. I’m bettin they have some doubts right now, but the first couple of games against them will be HUGE.
"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente
by michaelbro8 on Jul 20, 2011 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
If Hammer were to hit Braun, Weeks and Fielder with fastballs, we wouldn’t be seeing them…or him for a while. Hammer hasn’t hit a batter all season and only 8 in the majors. Sure he’d be suspended for hitting 3 Brewers.
Actually 10
They rained out here, so there’s a DH next time they come to town.
3 in MIL, 4 here, 3 in MIL. As I mentioned in another thread, for the year we get 6 home games and 9 away games vs. the Brewers. What kind of bullshit is that?
“Obviously, only the record against the Brewers means anything.”
— Keith Law
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
by WTM on Jul 19, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tabata:
only batted twice tonight, got a double. he was then pinch hit for….
more leg issues or just taking it easy?
possibly getting the call back up?
if its another leg issue they need to shut him down.
maybe they think hes ready to join the club again and we will see paul DFA’d
by bbautista24 on Jul 19, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd love this...
I like Paul’s arm, but there’s almost nothing after that
well isnt not going to be diaz
and we actually need ciriaco considering that chase got shaken up yesterday
by bbautista24 on Jul 19, 2011 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
espn just tubbed more salt in the wound...jaggoffs
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
At least the Braves lost the 1992 World Series
by SteelStealth on Jul 19, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
as my father will tell you
it doesn’t matter what the braves did, barry f’n bonds should have been about to throw out a cripple.
by bbautista24 on Jul 19, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll go to my grave shouting: "Sid Bream was OUT !!"
"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente
by michaelbro8 on Jul 20, 2011 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
final thoughts then back to mlb2k11 (thanks blindsquirell for the find on steam)
1) appearances are that clint is getting away from using the role guys in certain situations. beimel was brought in for a lefty lefty match-up but that’s what hes here for. he stuck with resop in the 7th and 8th rather then bringing in resop for one inning, another pitcher for a few batters and another pitcher for one batter. maybe its because of the pens usage over the last few days but i dunno, i surely hope he’s learned to stick with the hot hand as far as his pitchers go
2) screw sabermetrics when it comes to our pitchers, they are all pretty darn good. how much of that is forts ability to call a game is beyond me. we have some absurd winning record when hes behind the plate, i dont know the numbers off hand but its up there, well above 500
3) walker is a man possessed.
4) overbay is the worst 1b in the league. he cant hit, cant field. normally you see a guy who can do one or the other pretty good…oh no..not failsauce….he fails at both.
5) hopefully cutch’s slump doesnt last to long. we are going to need him against the cards braves and phillies.
6) pls dont put hammer in tomorrow night. dude needs a break.
7) pedro’s continued progress in indy as well as ronnies bodes well for the club as a whole. we get those guys up we got us a punchers chance at this..this being the playoffs.
8) even after the guys mentioned in number 7 get back, we still are probably going to need a bat, i don’t think we need a starter but we sure as heck need a bat and perhaps another guy in the pen, like NH is looking for now.
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:16 PM EDT reply actions
can we stop with the overbay hate already.
i get it. hes not wanted.
once overbay is gone, whom do we hate next? do we go back to Cedeno? do we go after the Legend? oh wait, its matt diaz.
by white angus on Jul 19, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t possibly begin to think of the idea of hating another baseball player on this earth more then Lyle Overbay. With that in mind, the reason I hate him is because he is an almost everyday starter. Honestly, once the cavalry is back, and our offense is hopefully producing better, those guys shortcomings won’t be as glaring.
by Zach Buccos on Jul 19, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
i like to think
that if all we have to hate on is a platoon/role player/reliever then we are in a good position.
by bbautista24 on Jul 19, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
theres a big difference b/w not wanted and not producing
if he produces in one of the two categories im more then fine with him staying at third. this isn’t hate, i want him to succeed, here. but how long are we going to give him?
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
*derp...1st
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
we're 51-44 with him
and i never said keep him in the lineup. when Overbay is no longer a pirate, i will stop defending his honor.
by white angus on Jul 19, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
the question is
what would the record be with a league average 1b? BR has him as a -0.4 WAR. we could have one or two more in the win column with a league average 1b
by bbautista24 on Jul 19, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
if i believed in that metric, i would agree
but im an old skool guy. i think its more than just stats that helps win games.
and yes, overbay has not played well.
by white angus on Jul 19, 2011 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
even by old school methods
doesnt it pain you to watch him fail soo much?
by bbautista24 on Jul 19, 2011 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
it pains everybody to even have this discussion
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, stats aren’t absolute. But let’s not assume anyone performing worse than a AAA lifer is doing anything intangible :)
Thank you Ned Colletti.
by ryebr3ad on Jul 20, 2011 1:22 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Who cares what the team record is when talking about one player? It’s not like he’s been a part of that record.
Thank you Ned Colletti.
ZING
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean no disrespect, either. I just wouldn’t attribute any wins in the Pirates record to a guy who has a negative WAR.
Thank you Ned Colletti.
thats because you believe in a metric, which is fine...
i just dont buy into it
by white angus on Jul 19, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
don't open up that can 'o worms !!!
you’ll never get those squiggly things back in !!!
"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente
by michaelbro8 on Jul 20, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Let’s not assume a metric is needed to prove that Overbay is negatively affecting this team offensively and defensively. His OBP is poor, his average is poor, he had bad range and leads first basemen in errors.
There is a lot bad with Overbay — not just WAR.
Thank you Ned Colletti.
by ryebr3ad on Jul 20, 2011 1:20 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
since WAR includes most statistics so i used that
but either way i would like to see some one else starting.
Rec'd for the TR ref.
I saw that tour, too.
Fucking awesome.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 20, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, GJ is getting there...
Dude is below .240 now. Personally, with our logjam in the OF, I think we should just sell low on Jones and trade him for whatever we can get.
I really don't think giving up on Jones is a good idea
He is fixable, and I think the fix is for him to stop waiting for mistakes he can hit out of the park. From quotes I’ve seen, he wants to hit homers. If he can get out of that mindset and understand that they’ll come if he just hits what he sees, he’ll do more than well enough. I’d rather see him hitting second again for a few days, so he gets some decent pitches to hit. He is getting garbage batting in front of Overbay. In fact, I noticed that some of his bet days came hitting when Overbay was out of the lineup and he was hitting in front of Walker or McCutchen.
"Throw strikes, but don't give him anything good to hit."
by RichieHebner on Jul 20, 2011 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions
well heres the problem with changeing mindsets....
it only works to a certain point/age. and be prepared for the sabermetric guys (stat nerds as i call them =p) to say
theres no evidence suggesting that protection in a line up actually has an impact on a batters performance.
ive tried this arguement and they tell me imma idiot…iz ok
but i would love to see some stats for GFJ when certain folks are in and out of the line-up and if those folks (yes im talking about overbay) are not necessarily hurting the teams performance at the plate, but rather if there is any impact at all.
HAVE AT IT STAT NERDS, THE GAUNTLET HAS BEEN THROWN!
muwahahahaha
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 20, 2011 4:09 AM EDT up reply actions
You could always try doing that research yourself instead of simultaneously asking others to do it for you and insulting them.
“Stat nerds” isn’t exactly a term of endearment.
I don’t know where to find those kinds of numbers on GFJ, but a quick google search did turn up these three articles regarding the effect (or lack thereof) that protection has on a batter’s performance. The first one here is a basic Q+A about protection which was interesting to someone like me who has never really looked into it before.
The second one here says first of all that:
Given the number of observations we are convinced that protection is a myth; it doesn’t exist.
and interestingly enough:
also we find evidence that good on-deck hitters actually harm the hit and power probabilities of the current batter.
which I found very surprising and interesting.
The last article here is short and focuses on Andre Ethier’s comment that he was seeing better pitches with Manny Ramirez batting behind him. They found that the kinds of pitches he was seeing were actually pretty much exactly the same.
I know it’s not what you were looking for, but hopefully there’s something that you’ll find interesting in there.
That is interesting stuff
Thanks for that. It is food for thought and it is encouraging me to dig deeper. I will stick with the approach argument, however. Hitting us much easier when you clear your mind and hit the ball where it is pitched.
"Throw strikes, but don't give him anything good to hit."
by RichieHebner on Jul 22, 2011 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I could be mistaken...
But I believe the record with Fort starting is 18-7. Anyone care to confirm or correct this?
by Taz101 on Jul 19, 2011 11:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i think its more then that...i saw something like 20 wins or something but not sure
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought I saw info on the big board at PNC tonight stating 17-7
This was during the game. Keyword: “thought”. You may very well be correct.
by Taz101 on Jul 19, 2011 11:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
im often wrong
thus why im unemployed atm
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm wrong 100% percent of the time.
Ask my girlfriend.
by Taz101 on Jul 19, 2011 11:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I believe our pitchers have a LOT of faith in him; which means a lot
"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente
by michaelbro8 on Jul 20, 2011 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
This was right at the time
the win last night made it 18-7 in starts and 1-1 in non starts total 19-8 in games he’s played. The Pirates over all are 20-11 in that time meaning they are 1 and 3 when The Fort doesn’t play.
LOOGY
is the greatest verb since “guggenheim” (george costanza)
i thought the greatest verb was in "i love nutting"
by white angus on Jul 19, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
EPIC WIN
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Garrett
I am maybe now starting to see why Huntington has been kicking tires around for outfielders, even if its just for a Josh Willingham type of player. He’s REALLY been struggling lately, and it seems like his slumps have been much more frequent this year then his hot streaks/consistent play.
I don’t want to give up on him, but I think we are starting to see him regress right before our eyes. Honestly, if we were working with a seller to make a big deal, and they wanted a bat that could start everyday and asked for Garrett, I’m fine with that. He’s been a good player for us, especially the past two years when we were crap, but I think his time has come.
0-10 since the ASB
Before that he was hitting .241 in July almost same as his mark on the year, after a .297 June.
Cutch since ASB – 1-19
Let’s not flip out over a few games.
The two situations aren't even comparable...
Jones has been hitting around .240 for about a year now. Cutch is just in a semi-funk.
i dont think thats why we are looking for an OF
i think we are looking for an OF so we can platoon jones and peirce at 1st. and i wouldnt worry about the struggles or regressing, it could just be a slump. it happens mutch like cutch’s current skid
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
jesus my spelling is bad
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
See my post up above on Jones
I am absolutely convinced he can be fixed. This is approach rather than ability. Hitting in front of Overbay isn’t helpful, either.
"Throw strikes, but don't give him anything good to hit."
by RichieHebner on Jul 20, 2011 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions
if we send failsauce
to the brewers we win the division, cause nobody can hit in front of or behind him
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 20, 2011 3:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Willingham... please NO !!!
"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente
by michaelbro8 on Jul 20, 2011 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
quote of the night from joe beimel
Probably, if I had made the pitch that I wanted, he would have fouled it off or blooped it over somebody’s head," Beimel said. “It worked out that it was so bad that he couldn’t do anything with it.”
from langosch’s wrap on mlb.com
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 19, 2011 11:52 PM EDT reply actions
It's that long flowing hair...
so dreamy.
by Zach Buccos on Jul 20, 2011 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Pedro 4 for 4 at Indy.
God, I hope he’s the power bat were looking for. Liked Tims piece at PP on Rays and Bay in 08.
by Horace Clarke on Jul 20, 2011 9:50 AM EDT via mobile reply actions

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