Roster Moves: Lots Of Them, More To Come
by David Todd on Jul 21, 2011 11:02 AM EDT
Email
PrintI may just update this post with the various moves we see over the next 24 hours.
As Charlie posted, it appears Pedro Ciriaco is on his way to Indianapolis. Others are sure to follow. It is unclear whether both Ronny Cedeno and Steve Pearce will be recalled for Friday's game, but at least one is certain to be. Also, as I have mentioned, when Jason Grilli is added to the 40 & 25-man rosters tomorrow two moves will have to be made. The most likely scenario is that Evan Meek is moved from the 15-day to 60-day DL. Meek was disabled on June 10. Since he is still in the strengthening phase of his rehab it would be virtually impossible for him to be back major league-ready by August 10. I would guess he is not back before rosters expand September 1.
In a bit of good news, Ryan Doumit will begin his rehab assignment with Bradenton today. I would think this puts him on track to be in Indianapolis as early as next Monday, and possibly with the Pirates when they play Philadelphia next Friday. That would be a quick timetable, but I think the Pirates will move him as quickly as possible if his ankle can handle the rigors of catching at least every other day.
Ross Ohlendorf will make his next rehab start with Altoona on Sunday. This is noteworthy because, barring a setback, Ohlendorf's rehab will end before September 1 at which point he will have to be added back to the 40-man roster and probably to the 25-man roster. This will call for some interesting decisions to be made before rosters expand.
UPDATE: Immediately after posting this the Pirates have announced that they have signed Jason Grilli. He will wear uniform No. 39. Evan Meek has been moved to the 60-day DL and his earliest reinstatement is August 7.
The team also announced that both Pedro Ciriaco and Josh Harrison have been optioned to Indianapolis. No word on Cedeno, Pearce or Leroux. The 40-man roster is full. The 25-man roster currently stands at 24.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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Last time Harrison was optioned it spurred a lot of dislike from the fans (and I’m not quite sure why).
I’m interested to see my Facebook feed in an hour.
Thank you Ned Colletti.
Honestly, I think he’s been a more solid contributor than Chase, and Chase could use the more regular playing time down at AAA to keep improving.
by pittbluedevil on Jul 21, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Although
Chase is probably a more reliable backup at 2B than Harrison. You have to rest Walker sometime. (Although I suppose you could run the Indy Shuttle and swap Harrison and d’Arnaud for a game here and there; Harrison is competent enough as an emergency injury backup.)
You can't run the Indy Shuttle...
a player gets optioned to the minors, he has to stay there 10 days unless there’s an injury.
I agree with this, keeping Harrison over d'Arnaud is the way to go
Harrison has only one trick — hitting for average — and that trick limits his ultimate usefulness as an everyday player, maybe to nothing. However, if leveraged properly, it can be a very useful trick for a bench player. For example, Harrison could be a very useful bench player if used primarily to pinch hit with runners in scoring position.
D’Arnaud, on the other hand, doesn’t seem to me to have any value once Cedeno comes back. He’s unreliable defensively and isn’t doing anything well offensively. I guess he could be useful as a pinch runner, but that’s about it, and that’s less useful than a pinch-hitting role.
Can Wood not play 2B to spell Walker? Even if not, the difference between Harrison’s current ability to hit MLB pitchers and d’Arnaud’s current inability to hit MLB pitchers likely cancels out d’Arnaud’s superior 2B defensive ability if it comes spelling Walker at 2B, especially considering that d’Arnaud’s current defensive issues with erratic play do not figure to completely vanish at 2B.
by RafaelBelliup on Jul 21, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Far as I can tell, Wood has never played 2B at any level professionally. Harrison has actually played 2B for the Pirates this year (albeit not very, you know, well), and has played almost as many games there in the minors as he has at third (although recently in the upper minors it’s been more a 2:1 split between 3B and 2B).
Wow! Apparently the roster is going through some heavy changes. One person is going to Indianapolis and two are being recalled for a Friday Game. Hopefully the player Evan Meek will be quickly on his way out of rehabilitation soon.
Halloween World
by christopoulosgeorge on Jul 22, 2011 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Looks like we will have Cedeno & Pearce (3B) in lineup Friday.
Not sure who will bat 2nd. Cedeno is an upgrade and Pearce should be a big upgrade.
Now Pedro should play everyday at Indy, so this gives Pearce a shot to show what he can do (again) with the bat for 10 days to see if he is moved to a platoon at first or is we need a major upgrade. We should also have a better idea on Tabata and Doumit in a week.
lineup construction
My first thought is that Pearce’s return might make it easier to move Cutch back up in the lineup. Cedeno is an upgrade but still isn’t great in terms of OBP because he doesn’t walk.
What about:
LF Presley
CF McCutchen
2B Walker
RF Jones/Diaz
3B Pearce
1B Overbay
SS Cedeno
C McKenry
Pitcher
When Doumit comes back, put him in the 5 spot and move everyone else down one.
Ugh
Jones/Diaz in the clean up spot. I’m a supporter of both players, but I wouldn’t bat either in the 4 spot. I might even put Pearce there before those two.
I think if faced with those players I would probably go:
Presley
Cedeno
Walker
Cutch
Pearce
Jones/Diaz
Overbay
McKenry
this
cedeno in the 2 hole pretty much by default
I think
Pearce is likely to bat #2 against lefties.
The Hammer Speaks
Extra Innings
Twitter: @DTonPirates and @hammerspeaks
not adverse to a platoon-type situation vs. LHP at 1B to get him some ABs.
Could try to get Wood in there at 3B or something…see if he can get his bat to run into something.
by insane_sanity on Jul 21, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
The 2nd worst hitter on the team should not be the #2 hitter. d’Arnaud batting 2nd is driving me crazy right now and Cedeno is just a shade better.
Hate not having a lineup with bats!
by Joey Mooney on Jul 21, 2011 1:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i don't think cedeno SHOULD be in the two hole
but right now i don’t really see who would fit in there. I like walker mccutchen hiting 3 and 4. no way i stick diaz, Jones or overbay there right now. if pedro could come back and be a legit clean-up guy, that would be ideal.
I agree
Nut with the options we have, he seems to make the most sense. When we get Pedro, Doumit, Pearce and possibly Tabata (or trade for a 1B/OF) things will change.
Umm, in the 5 games before Ronny went down he was hitting .467 and had been producing pretty well in the weeks leading up to the injury. For the season he was up to .253. Not sure how he is the 2nd worst hitter on the team. Have you seen Overbay? (.233) Jones? (.234) McKenry? (.227).
oh no I agree with brakeman!
Not too excited about Doumit coming back. Doesn’t it take him like a month to get going after the DL or is my memory wrong?
I would give up a year of my life
to have the bucs trade for him just for the laugh and the fact I have been banned 3 times for posting about him.
Yeah, don't knock Ronny for his offense
This is probably an odd sample to choose, but between the 7 June game against the Dbacks and the 1 July game against the Nats in which he was concussed (23 in total), Cedeno put up these numbers:
.297 / .392 / .738.
So he was doing well for a significant stretch. Hopefully when he gets back he’ll pick up where he left off.
Jay Bell
Jay Bell rarely hit for average, but he was a very good number two hitter. He specialized in advancing the runner, which does not require hitting for average (although it would be nice).
Like bunting guys ahead?
Everyone just acted like they didn’t see this comment. Ha.
by Joey Mooney on Jul 22, 2011 9:57 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Jay Bell was a solid OBP guy for the Pirates (.343 career, including .392 in 1993). Cedeno has a .287 career OBP, just .311 this year. Batting 2nd is about getting on-base. I’d like to see more than just a decent month for Cedeno before I’d say he’s any better than a 250/300/360 guy.
I agree with what you are saying, but I’d certainly rather give Cedeno a chance to stay hot in the 2 spot than bat Diaz/Jones in the 4 spot.
Yeah, that’s not exactly ideal either, but nothing with this line-up is going to be. Damn we need Tabata and Doumit back.
move Walker up to #2, Cutch #3
or put Pearce at #2, especially vs LHP
by Brian Cartwright on Jul 21, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
not bad
I know that Jones/Diaz in the cleanup spot isn’t pretty, but I don’t like the idea of Ronny that high up. He doesn’t get on base enough, and frankly, the whole point of our lineup right now should be “have guy(s) on base for Cutch and Neil.”
I’d be fine with hitting Pearce above Jones, though.
Cutch needs to bat in the 1st inning
keep him in the 3 hole if possible
by white angus on Jul 21, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Meh.
I’d rather have him leading off the 2nd then batting with 2 outs and bases empty 3 out of 5 games. If people get on base, then he’ll get up to bat in the first whether he hits 3rd or 4th.
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 21, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
This
I have pointed this out before. Cutch getting on with 2 out is worse than him leading off the next inning. If our “on base” guys do their job in the first inning, Cutch will bat in the 1st.
and it was worse last night
when we had Walker up and 2 on instead of Cutch. Get Cutch more AB’s. Period.
The ones on "Bucs Stop"
are particularly poignant.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 22, 2011 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
they are
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 22, 2011 4:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Timing
is everything.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 21, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Im pumped!
I can’t see them keeping chase…. I am sure he will get optioned. Cedeno, Pearce, and Grilli are going to be at Pitt. I am sure by 5 we will hear a lot more!
by Joey Mooney on Jul 21, 2011 11:55 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Chase
will probably stick around. We have 1 reliever too many right now. Look for Leroux to go back down.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 21, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Puzzled a bit
I’m not sure what the plan is with Chase. If he is going to sit the bench and only play in 1-3 games a week, don’t we have more to gain by playing hime every day in AAA and letting Harrison and Wood take the back-up IF jobs? Especially if Pierce is coming back. This either means Pierce is going to play 3b, or he is going to play 1b, Chase/Wood at 3b and Overbay taking over for Circiaco.
Chase is still our best backup at SS & 3B
He is better defensively and offensively than Harrison. Sure, he will not have much of a role and he is better off playing everyday at AAA, but we are in a race. He is a better PH option than J-Hay or Ciriaco, he can pinch run for Pearce, Overbay, Diaz & Fort when needed.
Plus, he goes down when Pedro comes back.
Also, Cedeno may not be able to go everyday off the concussion.
by NHpiratefan on Jul 21, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
thats not what the stats say
Chase has been atrocious on Def
I was compiling defense for Pirates last night
full report to follow…
Chase – has not done as well at ss this year as he has previously, still an above average glove at all 3 infield positions
r/150 2011 2b 0.8 3.6 3b 3.0 1.2 ss 2.9 -4.1
2011 is what he has done so far this year.
The runs per 150 games is a projection based on performance in all leagues from 2008 until now, regressed to the league average based on the sample size, and then projected over 150 games worth of opportunities.
Skills rated are percent of grounders that go as hits to the outfield; percent of infield grounders that become infield hits or reached on errors; double plays started; and double plays pivoted for ss & 2b
by Brian Cartwright on Jul 21, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
i think Wood is our best "backup" at SS and 3B
put d’Arnaud back in AAA until hes ready to take over for Ronny full time
by white angus on Jul 21, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
That's what I think
Even if we assume Chase is a better option, how much better? And how often will we see the difference? If we are talking about 50 pts of AVG, over 5 abs a week, it seems like a pretty small reward in exchange for possibly stunting his development. There are definitely things he could be working on in AAA.
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 21, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
this is probably true
however, i too have misgivings over his arm, and not only based on the DP attempt last game…
I think you just
see Chase here for a week to 10 days until Pedro comes back up then he goes down. What I don’t think a lot of people are realizing is we are getting back close to the opening day roster.
When Tabata comes back, Paul is likely gone. So, in terms of position players you have McKenry in place of JJ-Snyder/ Wood in place of Rodriguez-Criaco/ and Presley in place of Bowker-Paul.
Even the staff Beimel in place of Olson, etc/ Watson in place of Meek/ Cutch in place of Crotta/ Grilli in place of Ohlendorf thru Leroux.
The Hammer Speaks
Extra Innings
Twitter: @DTonPirates and @hammerspeaks
Now who for Garrett jones
Spot…and Matt Diaz?
A couple interesting tweets
And if a trade happened, it would be more jones losing his spot on team not exactly being involved in the deal itself
#Pirates had scout watching #Athletics in Detroit for past two days.
@jonmorosi:
JohnSheaHey Gotcha. Pirates’ talk of Willingham, Breslow. RT @BiertempfelTrib My tweet misinterpreted. Not 2-for-1. meant Jones would lose spot on team.
Gotcha. Pirates’ talk of Willingham, Breslow. RT @BiertempfelTrib My tweet misinterpreted. Not 2-for-1. meant Jones would lose spot on team.
Olney tweet
The Pirates have talked internally about pursuing David DeJesus, but it’s unclear whether they will follow up aggressively with Oakland.
Makes sense if you expect him to automatically return to form...
which he very well could but it would be risky to give up anything of value for him.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
he put up ok numbers in kc
and oak is a pitchers park so he may do well at pnc. He’s a pretty good fielder as well.
KC is a pitchers park too
just not a good park for KC pitchers. hehe
by white angus on Jul 21, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
They could plant
A garden in oak or some other popular plants in CA…in the foul territory
?
CA trees, in Missouri? What are you getting at?
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 21, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Well,
D’Arnaud has a potentially big future with the Pirates.
Harrison is a spare part that provides quality depth when needed in Pgh. and a solid AAA player-nothing more.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see D’Arnaud back to Indy soon in all the roster shuffling to make sure he plays every day, preferably SS, with a recall at the end of Aug./beginning of Sep. depending on how the Bucco season projects at that point.
パトリック
Yeah
It won’t kill him to spend a week or two as a part-timer in Pgh, but I’d hate to see him on bench duty the rest of the year – his future needs to start soon, but he’s plainly not ready at this moment.
Can Wood play 2B? I’m thinking we really only need a 2B on an emergency basis – Walker will start every day unless injured or deeply slumping. If he’s out more than a couple days, maybe you bring Chase back up.
Assuming Ronny can start nearly every day (at least 5/7), I’m comfortable enough with Wood at SS. Especially given Chase’s error-prone performance so far.
Earlier, we had a starting lineup of Wood at SS and Ronny at 2B
by NHpiratefan on Jul 21, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
That may not be the case now
That was soon after Wood arrived and it probably was trying to see what we had with him. I know Wood (along with Pearce) were taking ground balls at 2B.
by NHpiratefan on Jul 21, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
So what's the bench shaping up as?
Until Pedro gets here (and barring trades), I see:
Starters: Cutch, Presley, Jones, Overbay, Walker, Ronny, Pearce, Doumit.
Bench: McKenry, Wood, Diaz, Paul, Chase
Right? Am I missing someone? At that point, I guess Chase is the best extra IF, and a little farther down the road, Pedro replaces Chase and Tabata replaces Paul. Which leaves us with Pearce and Wood as the only IF backups.
Can we please stop carrying 12 stupid pitchers already?
Can we please stop carrying 12 stupid pitchers already?
When Ohlendorf comes back, it’ll be 11 stupid pitchers and one Princeton grad.
by Garrett122 on Jul 21, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
hahaaaaaaaaa
brilliant!
not you, but Ohlendorf
by white angus on Jul 21, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
yep,
rec.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 21, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
and if we trade for the kid from the A's...
Craig Breslow went to Trumbull College…(one of the residential colleges of Yale University)
just throwin’ that out there…
by insane_sanity on Jul 21, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
End of Overbay v LHP
Hopefully, Pearce plays everyday, 3rd v RHP and 1B v LHP. So, Wood and Overbay are in a platoon situation.
Than Diaz and Jones platoon.
I know Overbay has under preformed, but this will really give our bench a boost in late innings.
by NHpiratefan on Jul 21, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
bullpen has been taxed
what would it be like with one less guy? This team could use brad lincoln
yeah
how aquiring a guy whos have a worse season at the plate then overbay is is beyond me
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 21, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
dejesus might put up better numbers in Pitt than in Oakland
when they built the bleachers above CF in oakland, it pretty much turned it into a pitchers ballpark. another reason why a change of scenery would be good for Willingham too.
im for buying the DEJESUS
every team could use a guy with jesus in his name
seriously
the early 90’s called….they want their music back.
by insane_sanity on Jul 21, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno, man...
People Are People
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 21, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
some of you just
Wanna be Starting Something
you, too.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 22, 2011 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
fail.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 22, 2011 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
pearce
i truly don’t understand why people on here have such boners for steve pearce. he’s never done anything, and yet tons of you are constructing lineups in which he bats fifth against the three straight right-handed pitchers that st. louis is throwing. it’s nonsensical. hopefully the demotions of ciriaco and harrison means that the pirates are bringing back cedeno and alvarez, not cedeno and pearce. alvarez might actually help them beat the cardinals.
My biggest reason for rooting for Pearce...
is so when he finally breaks through with a consistently good season I can go back to all of the fans, like you, who irrationally hate him and sing, “heh heh heh heh hah, I told you guys!” Until then I shall simply speak for Steve Pearce and say, “screw you guys, imma goin home.”
Don’t know why but I felt like a little Eric Cartmen today.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
you proved my point by saying, ‘when he finally breaks through….’ you’re acknowledging that he has never done anything at the major-league level. i’m just puzzled by the fact that so many people here seem to have such a crush on him. it just seems like wishful thinking to me.
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 21, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
well
it’s probably because
A) During each of the last two seasons, Pearce has shown signs of producing well, then lost time due to injury. That’s frustrating, and it may be that he’s just forever injury-prone, but he hasn’t yet shown that he’s overmatched by MLB pitching.
B) All the other internal options are worse.
a) the ‘signs of producing well’ that you speak of are only visible if you were the sort of person who was championing the great steve pearce to begin with. to the rest of us, he looks like a marginal big-leaguer, not the savior that many people here seem to make him out to be.
b) the internal option of pedro alvarez is most definitely not worse.
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 21, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Pearce career wOBA .313
Pedro career wOBA .323
Pearce is healthy as well. I don’t think, long term, that they are comparable. But for now…
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 21, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m assuming that alvarez is also healthy. if he isn’t, he shouldn’t be playing anywhere. moreover, he isn’t the one who has broken down TWICE in the last two seasons….anyway, i think the more important point is that alvarez is a supreme talent. he was the second pick in the nation. you can’t seriously be comparing the offensive abilities of the two players. these are important games, and the offense is struggling (to say the least). i’d hate to see at-bats that could go to him instead going to the likes of pearce and d’arnaud and wood.
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 21, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I see this as a multiple tier issue,
1. a good Pedro
2. Pearce
3. the rest
Pearce is abetter option then the others, and the FO obviously doesn’t think Pedro is ready. Unless you believe in some conspiracy theory about them screwing a Boras client as leverage to sign Josh Bell, then there is no motivation for them to leave him down there unless they believe it is in the team’s best interest. I can stand behind that.
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 21, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
i guess i’m just not one of those people who believes that just because Neal Huntington and company think something is in the team’s best interest that that necessarily means that it IS in the team’s best interest….anyway, is pearce even necessarily better than the rest of those guys? for purposes of this discussion, we’re talking about him as a viable option at 3B, right? when did he become a 3B? did he even play the position prior to this year? i would imagine that his defense will be poor, and i just don’t have any evidence to support the argument that his offense will be good enough to make up for it.
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 21, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Pearce played 3B in college
he does have experience there. he will not be as good as some but i believe he will do okay
As for the first part; where, then, would you get the information to give a better solution? If there were other independent scouts questioning Pedro’s time in AAA, then by all means, criticize NH. But there are not. This is something that happens to young players, and I see no outcry fro legitimate sources.
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 21, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
what is ‘something that happens to young players’? being banished to the minors during a pennant race while players not as good as you get all the at-bats? i’ve been a baseball fan for nearly 40 years. i can’t say that this is something that i’ve seen happen every day…..as for the independent-scout argument, i don’t know, is this something that even exists? is there some non-pirate employee out there whose job it is to monitor how pedro alvarez is doing in indianapolis? i would doubt that there is, but, from a distance at least, alvarez seems to be doing pretty well.
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 21, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Off the top of my head
Brandon Belt got sent down for a bit this year after struggling, as did Juan Miranda, and I think Julio Teheran. That’s three top prospects who had time in the bigs, adn were sent back. Not uncommon. Shit, Roy Halliday was sent back down at one point in his career.
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 21, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Justin Smoak last year
which made me look up his numbers… struggling this year too after a hot start… though with a 250 BABIP
let me say that in may, before alvarez got hurt, i was a big proponent of sending him down to the minors for a time in an effort to get his game back. so i certainly have no beef with top prospects being sent back to triple A on certain occasions. but now it is july, the games are more important, and, like i said, it appears that alvarez’s bat is coming around. because of all of those things, i wouldn’t waste any more at-bats on scrubs like wood and pearce than i have to.
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 21, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh. His performance kind of reflects a BABIP that low. He hits so few line drives, and pops the ball up a good deal, so he’s going to sustain a pretty low BABIP.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 21, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus
the things he is working on may not show up in the stat line. We all knw he can crush a fastball, so when the other pitchers throw him a sub par FB, he will blast it, keeping his overall numbers up. But what about the breaking stuff? That’s where someone who sees him daily can tell if he is still hopeless with the breaking stuff, or if he has improved, which is how this conversation got started. I trust the coaching staff to know when he is ready, and I can’t be sure right now that he is.
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 21, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
There are also numbers that tell us that stuff. They say he’s improved all around, except he still can’t hit a curve to save his life.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 21, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Hurdle seems to think he's a better option than everyone else...
since he will be playing him there when he gets back.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
to the rest of us, he looks like a marginal big-leaguer, not the savior that many people here seem to make him out to be.
Where did anyone say he was a savior? The issue right now is Pearce versus Overbay/Wood/Harrison. I will take Pearce every time. He IS a marginal big-leaguer, which makes him more valuable than the aforementioned awful big-leaguers.
b) the internal option of pedro alvarez is most definitely not worse.
Right. My statement was based off of the assumption that when the FO thinks Pedro is ready to play in the majors again, he’ll be starting. I don’t think that’s really up for debate. Until Pedro is ready, Pearce is our best option. That’s all.
unless one simply assumes that the front office is infallible, isn’t the issue really pearce versus alvarez and not pearce versus overbay/wood/harrison? in other words, isn’t it quite possible that alvarez IS ready, that if he were to come up here starting tomorrow, the pirates would have a much better chance against st. louis and the rest of the schedule after that than they would without him, and that huntington is actually making a mistake by not calling him up right now? i’m not inclined to say ‘the front office must know what its doing’ every time they make some sort of move. like pearce, i’m not sure what they’ve done to earn the reputation that they have here.
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 21, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
No one is saying NH is infallible
people are saying Pedro hit .208 this year, got injured for 2 months, and might need another week to get his swing together.
wasn’t pearce injured just as long? and he also doesn’t have nearly the pedigree that alvarez has. look, i’m not one of those guys in favor of trading jameson taillon for carlos beltran in an effort to win a division title, but these games ARE important, and so i’d at least like the team to put its best guys on the field in an effort to take a legitimate shot at this thing. maybe you’re right, maybe giving alvarez another week will make him that much better when he finallly does come back. but isn’t it also possible that he could hit two home runs off of carpenter and get the pirates off to a good start in a huge series? if he’s healthy (and i’m assuming that he is), i’m playing him.
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 21, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
wait, so based on the first six weeks of the season, you’ve given up on alvarez (at least for the time being) and would rather go with some combination of pearce/wood/harrison/d’arnaud?
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 21, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
He can’t turn it around from Indy. The only way we’ll find out if he can help the team is if they call him up and play him.
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 21, 2011 10:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Its the only way YOU can find out if he can help the team
The coaching staff adn front office see him everyday, in games and BP and drills. They have a better grasp on this than a guy in Pittsburgh looking at box scores.
Do you believe that this is a conspiracy or do you believe that, from your couch, you have a better handle on the development of one of the Pirates most important assets?
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 22, 2011 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Sir, I obviously do not have the same blind faith in the judgment of the Pirates administration as you do. But hopefully they get this one right.
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 22, 2011 9:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
There is nothing else to go on other than
faith. Either you believe that they know what they are doing, or not. There is really no information that we have access to that can give us a better picture. If you choose to believe that the FO and coaching is incompetent, then you may do so. I have seen no evidence of this coaching staff or front office squandering the development of players thus far into their tenure, with both their own draftees and ones inherited from DL, so I believe that the evidence supports faith in their decisions concerning minor league development. Again, if you choose to believe that they are incompetent, or have some nefarious reason for keeping Pedro in AAA, that is your right. But fi you are going to argue this so much, provide some sort of evidence. We all understand that he can hit fastballs in AAA, and thus his numbers should be decent, but the things we cannot see are the things he needs to work on.
In the end, we are both going on faith, I just believe in the FO, and you believe that the FO is evil, or incompetent.
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 22, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
When did I say—or even suggest—that they were evil? As for their level of competence, I think if we’re being completely honest, the best that any of us can say is that the jury is still out.
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 22, 2011 10:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You were arguing that the FO
was doing some sort of disservice by leaving Pedro down. I agree that the jury is out, and I trust the developmental staff to help rectify this problem. That’s their job.
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 22, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
But, as baseball fans, we all have opinions. That’s part of the fun of it. I was just saying that if the decision were mine, I’d have Alvarez in the lineup tonight against the Cardinals.
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 22, 2011 1:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
thats cool
remember that chris carpenter is pitching tonight, and hes been unhittable in his last half dozen starts….
good way to get pedro’s confidence back is an 0-4 with 5 Ks
I'm acknowleding that he hasn't had the chance...
to take advantage of his opportunities the last couple of years due to injury. I don’t think people are in love with the guy like you are saying, I certainly I am not. I do however think he can be better than Overbay at 1st. I think over the rest of this season he could put up a wOBA around .330. I see his potential maxing out around .350-360 with above average defense so he is not a star but he could be a solid 2-3 WAR type of player. Teams need those too.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
I want Alvarez, too
But that is not happening.
Do I want Pearce batting 5th? No.
But I want him ahead of Fort. Ahead of Cedeno. Ahead of what Jones and Overbay have given. He has been mashing
but why isn’t it happening? alvarez is eligible to come back, he’s a big-time prospect, he’s been hitting well recently (at least as well as pearce has been). there’s no reason to bring pearce up at the expense of alvarez.
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 21, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
yes there is
It’s a pennant race, so you would like to know what you’re getting. There’s strong evidence Pedro isnt ready to hit ML LHP, at this point, and strong evidence that Pearce is.
isn’t there strong evidence that pearce isn’t ready now (or ever) to hit major-league right-handed pitching? so how is that a justification to call up pearce instead of alvarez?
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 21, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Pearce was hitting very well before he got hurt and posted good numbers last year…before getting hurt. Yes, he could always get hurt again, but he also could prove to be a solid bat in our lineup.
but why isn’t it happening? alvarez is eligible to come back, he’s a big-time prospect, he’s been hitting well recently (at least as well as pearce has been). there’s no reason to bring pearce up at the expense of alvarez
I’m not sure if this a rhetorical “but why not, this is dumb” question or a “honestly, explain to me why it’s not happening I don’t understand.”
Either way, the answer is fairly simply, regardless of what the fanbase wants, the front office has made it clear they aren’t putting all their chips in this season. Even if Pedro, based on his potential, is the best option, his future needs to be protected not sacrificed. If he has serious holes in his swing and confidence issues that need fixed, leave him in AAA. A Pedro who put’s up great offensive numbers over the next 3-4 years, even if he stays in AAA all year, is way more valuable than one who comes up and is somewhat of an improvement at 3rd.
I’d love to see him come up and propel us to a division title, but there are more important things at stake. His numbers have looked good recently, but when he get’s called up, it won’t have anything to do with what you can see in a statsheet. It will be because scouts will tell Neal Huntington that he’s ready to face MLB pitching, and he won’t be over his head floundering… and that’s what needs to happen.
This year has been great, but it should be seen as a stepping stone or a window opening rather than the plateau or the window closing.
Now that should answer the “honestly, explain to me why it’s not happening I don’t understand” question, because it’s how I feel and it happens to also be how Neal Huntington and the Front Office feels. I can’t help you out with your “but why not, this is dumb” question.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 21, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
i wonder if steve pearce himself ever comes to this site and reads all of the comments and says, ‘jesus christ, what have i ever done to deserve such respect and praise? i always kind of thought i sucked.’
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 21, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
from my experience with this site, it seems that many of you have a much higher opinion of him than the one that you’ve just espoused.
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 21, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
nope
its true that i also think he can hold his own against RHP, but I’ll admit that that’s far more likely to be untrue… in any case, I’d be curious to see examples of the higher opinions that you cite.
my general sense from having read the comments on this blog over the last year or two is that the majority of the people here seem to have an irrational love for steve pearce. that may not be true. it’s just the impression that i’ve gotten……anyway, i’d be curious to know where your faith that pearce can hit right-handed pitching comes from. are you just inherently an optimistic person, believing that everything will work out fine in the end, despite all evidence to the contrary? or is it just this man pearce in particular who has brought out this side in you?
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 21, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
If loving Steve Pearce is wrong
I don’t wanna be right.
by maguro on Jul 21, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
heh, if you're gonna try sarcasm, gotto make it stronger than that
anyway, i’d be curious to know where your faith that pearce can hit right-handed pitching comes from.
From the fact that I expect him to OPS in the 800 range against LHP, and RHH regress to about a 1.1 ratio in their numbers against RHP and LHP.
Pearce has certainly made improvements to his game over the past year, and if he can actually OPS 700+ against RHP, he’d be good for spot starts certainly against RHP, while playing primarily against LHP— solid option off the bench in any case
ok, i’ll work on my sarcasm, burgherking.
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 21, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
you keep saying this
But no one is this post (besides you) is making that point.
Everyone is saying he’s the lesser of two evils right now.
No offense, Chef, but if anyone here has a Pearce fixation, it’s you.
I know Pierce has been playing at 3rd
But I would like to think that management has seen enough out of Overbay and somehow get rid of him. Then platoon Pierce and Jones. Or get a power bat for 1st and then I’d be ok with Pierce at 3rd. The main thing is replacing Overbay. Addition by subtraction.
the thing that spurred my original comment today was someone up above posting his proposed lineup against cris carpenter tomorrow night in which he had steve pearce penciled in at number 5 as if he were frank thomas or someone. even though overbay sucks and garrett jones has been hitting poorly, i don’t see why anyone would assume that a guy like pearce would be an appreciably better option. there’s no evidence that he can hit right handed pitching in the major leagues. it’s quite possible that he would actually be WORSE than overbay or jones. and he’s certainly a much poorer option than alvarez would be.
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 21, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
hahah
the thing that spurred my original comment today was someone up above
(me!)
had steve pearce penciled in at number 5 as if he were frank thomas or someone.
Wait, so batting #5 in the Pirates lineup now equates to being Frank Thomas?
Players who have batted fifth for the 2011 Pirates:
Lyle Overbay (34 times)
Matt Diaz (14 times)
Pedro Alvarez (13 times)
Steve Pearce (8 times)
. . . plus a few for Walker, Jones, etc.
it’s quite possible that he would actually be WORSE than overbay
At this point, can you really say that with a straight face?
Sure. There is nothing that would indicate that Steve Pearce would be even an adequate number 5 hitter against RHP. I don’t see any more reason to be excited about the prospect of him hitting fifth than about the prospect of, say, Brandon Wood hitting fifth. And while certainly no one is clamoring for that, the sentiment of many commenters here seems to be, “Yay, we’re gonna be all right, Steve Pearce is back and hopefully hitting fifth.” Look, man, I hope he tears the cover off the ball. I just don’t see why anyone would expect him to, that’s all. In fact, I would think the expectation should be that he does very, very poorly.
by ChefAutomatic on Jul 21, 2011 10:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Pearce is a fairly safe bet against LHP
Pedro isnt a safe bet against either right now at the ML level…
Interesting...
Ciriaco and Harrison going down means that unless the Pirates are going with 13 pitchers, there’s another demotion yet to come. Assuming that Leroux is the unlucky loser in the BP.
Having 2 infielders sent down means there are 2 likely coming up. Barring a plane crash, we can assume that one is Ronny Cedeno. We are beyond 10 days from his optioning, so Pedro Alvarez is eligible to be recalled. The Pirates will have to do something in the next week or so with Pearce. Gut feeling is Pearce is the one coming, which means it will probably be Pedro.
There doesn't have to be any mystery about who's been named so far
Indy plays tonight and the Pirates don’t. They need players to get through the game and make sure everyone’s healthy.
by sanny manguillen on Jul 21, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Hijacking the thread
recent Keith Law top 50 prospect Luis Heredia is done for the day and had a very good start.
3.0 IP, 2H, 1ER, 0BB, 4K
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 21, 2011 1:58 PM EDT reply actions
And
he gave up an earned run! how dare he.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 21, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
And
no wins.. This is getting absurd.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 21, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont read Smizik
but i could swear i saw someone post that— at least, someone reliable, iirc… waiting for confirmation
16 & holding his own in the Gulf Roast
Wonder where he goes next year? I am assuming he will pitch some in the Fall League or Mexican Winter League. Does he start in WV? That would be sweet.
I would
hope so, but we also might see him in State College. Even if he went to SC, he’d be in West Virginia presumably when he would be 18, younger than Taillon and Allie. If he went there next year at 17, he’d have to be one of the youngest guys in the SAL league.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 21, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Why bring back Steve Pearce. Pearce is a career .246 hitter with but 9 home runs and 58 RBI’s in parts of five seasons with the Pirates. Pearce is just more of what is already here.
Look for Pearce to be optioned to Indianapolis once he is activated from the DL.
WOW
he went with cool story bro…
just wow
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 22, 2011 4:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe if the Pirates were in last place and 20 GBL. Pearce has limited experience at third base and cannot make plays we have seen from Wood and d’Arnaud.
Speed and defense have made up for lack of offense. Pearce lacks both.
Pearce is an excellent fielding 1b
who played ss in college and has played a fair amount of 3b over the past 12 months, not looking any worse than Wood statistically on defense.
It is limited experience, but the FO seems to be comfortable with letting Pearce be a part time 3b.
by Brian Cartwright on Jul 21, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
ZERO chance Pearce gets optioned back to Indy.
by bucket of jim bibby sweat on Jul 21, 2011 4:46 PM EDT reply actions
Seeing as how he still has a better OPS than most of the starting lineup, this should be painfully obvious.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
Yeah. How many wins does he have, smarty pants?
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 21, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
now, now... OPS was invented in 1984... if anything, its the grandaddy of metrics
heres a sample of how OPS is supposed to show how a player is doing at bat:
Great—————-.9000 and Above A
Moderate————.8333 to .8999 B
Above Average—-.7667 to .8333 C
Average————-.7000 to .7666 D
Below Average—-.6334 to .6999 E
Terrible————.5667 to .6333 F
Atrocious———-.5666 and Lower G
Why
is “moderate” above “above average.” Shouldn’t that be “good” or something.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 21, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
THIS
and this is why i hat sabermetrics….even reading a post in them makes me fall asleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 22, 2011 4:17 AM EDT up reply actions
IMO, OPS is not really a metric... its just on base + slugging. not really a hard equation to figure out
its not a great number for every player though. Tabata, for example, will probably never have a high OPS, but that doesnt mean hes a bad player.
You didn't answer the question,
why is “moderate” above "above average. Was this a little diabolical twist of the blade into sabermetrics? If so I aplaud you. If not wtf are you talking about?
/reverse sarc?
In five seasons, Pearce was unable to gain a starting position. . Pearce was a bench player on some very bad teams the last five years. Now he is the “bat” this team needs. I don’t think so.
Players
get better. Also (hint), look at his splits.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 21, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
believe me i don't believe pearce is the one chip we need for a world series run
but he does real well against lefties and i’d take him over overbay any day of the week. he’s also a nice back-up at 3rd and a good stick to have on the bench
99.99% sure...
that Cedeno and Pearce will be in Pittsburgh tomorrow, if they aren’t already.
Per Gameday, Ciriaco, Harrison and Alvarez are in Indianapolis starting lineup tonight and Jaramillo is listed as a substitute available off the bench. Cedeno and Pearce are not in the starting lineup, nor listed as available substitutes.
I love the internet
making all this info available.
Bowker goes deep, his 11th. Not saying he’s a star, but he could probably replace either Jones or Overbay or Diaz right now and production would go up.
by Brian Cartwright on Jul 21, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Nuh- uh
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 22, 2011 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
dont most of you guys who follow the minors stuffz
soncider bowker a AAAA player?
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 22, 2011 4:18 AM EDT up reply actions
so what's a quad-a player?
one definition is a guy who rakes at triple-a, but fails in mlb…Bowker qualifies so far, but in the one season where he was given regular playing time (2009 in SF) he hit 255/300/408, not great, but better than his par time seasons.
Another definition is a guy who’s not a bad hitter (and thus can put up good lines in triple-a) but because he plays 1b, dh or a corner of, expecially if he has a bad glove, is overcome by positional adjustment – the bat might be fine for 3b or c, but below average at those high offense positions.
Bowker’s MLE by level show that he’s walked more in Triple-A, while havng a crappy BABIP in MLB.
Level PA wOBA BA/ OB/ SA BH HR BB SO AA 584 354 287/331/502 322 057 057 207 AAA 1146 362 284/355/471 329 051 094 202 MLB 609 300 240/284/404 275 045 056 214
THT Forecasts currently have Bowker’s projection as 270/353/459, 354 wOBA. Avg wOBA for a corner of is 345, 1b is 355, dh is 360. Bowker is a little above average in of defense. Should we trade for an 800 OPS when we have one at Indy?
Even if Bowker hit exactly what he’s done in MLB so far, 240/284/404, that beats Overbay and Diaz this year and isn’t that far behind Jones.
I believe the FO had faith in Overbay as a proven vet, and did not have that same faith in Bowker as a MLB player, but I said before the season and I will say now that Bowker in 2011 is a better player than Overbay.
by Brian Cartwright on Jul 22, 2011 4:59 AM EDT up reply actions
What's Bowker look like...
vs LHP in the minors? His numbers vs LHP in the majors make him look invisible (SSS).
he's only had 57 pa vs lhp in mlb
and they’ve been very bad
Triple-A 2011, 319/377/519 in 185 PA vs RHP, 273/309/455 in 77 PA vs LHP
Triple-A career 336/423/609 in 809 PA vs RHP, 269/337/402 in 350 PA vs LHP
Looking at his minor league numbers, vs LHP his BB drop and SO go up, but not to unreasonable levels. His babip stays about the same as vs RHP, but his HR% is less than half of what it is vs RHP.
I liked when they traded for the guy. I thought the Pirates would be an opportunity for him to get some playing time, but Hurdle only gave Bowker 19 PH appearances before DFA’ing him. I still believe he’s a useful role player at a minimum, and could start vs RHP ahead of some guys on our roster.
by Brian Cartwright on Jul 22, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
you are going off of numbers, fantasy league stuff at that...
Bowker couldnt even get ON the field in pitt this season. he forgot what grass feels like under his cleats.
How are the numbers, how he ACUTLLY PERFORMED, fantasy stuff?
I don’t understand teh aversion to the guy’s actual numbers. These are the traditional stats that you love, and yet you still dismiss them. What gives, WA?
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 22, 2011 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, youre right.
i saw someone defending Bowker which usually means hes better than Overbay and i saw red. i was about to go all Jules Winnfield on somebody.
my bad.
by white angus on Jul 22, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
eh
i think Bowker > Overbay… at any rate, not worse, esp if primarily hitting against RHP…
by BurgherKing on Jul 22, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Because if the actual numbers say he hit 342/451/596 in the PCL
the question is how good is that performance? It’s AAA pitching, many parks at high altitude, etc. We will all attempt to do mental calculations to adjust, as we know he won’t do that well in MLB. I simply run the numbers of everyone in the past 15 years who’ve played for the same minor league teams and look to see how much their numbers changed when they went to MLB, then apply those factors. That says Bowker’s career 315/397/544 Triple-A performance is equivalent to 284/355/471 in MLB. Not a star at 1b, rf or lf, but at least an average MLB performer
by Brian Cartwright on Jul 22, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah - that's a bit much, even for you, Angus...
the “fantasy league” comment, I mean.
Look – I don’t think Bowker can do it either, but his numbers are his numbers.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 22, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Ciriaco batting lead-off for Indy today..
now THAT’s funny
also; for all the Pearce haters: I really don’t see anyone on this blog calling Pearce a savior or anything close. But the dude had a spectacular minor career, but once called up to the majors never got a chance to extend that because of injuries. I think a lot of us would like to see what he can do with a good stretch of playing time. Maybe nothing; maybe a lot… we just want to see.
"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente
I don't know...
Pearce’s RBI totals are a little lacking…
I really don’t see anyone on this blog calling Pearce a savior or anything close.
You must not have been here that day. I’m pretty sure there was a thread where he was voted “Most Likely to be in the Hall of Fame.” Or at least that’s the impression I get. I just can’t seem to find the thread.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
Look under
“Sure-fire, can’t miss, totally awesome”
It’s there SOMEwhere…
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 22, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I attended two of the Indianapolis-Columbus games last weekend. Both Pedro and Pearce had hits (both had home runs, in fact), but Pearce’s contact was considerably more solid. Pedro’s HR was a fly ball that made it over a PNC Park-esque short fence in the LF corner. Between the two, Pearce looked far closer to being major league ready, and I say that as a Vanderbilt alum who’d really like to see Pedro contribute.
by Traco Bucco on Jul 21, 2011 10:17 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
at this point, i really wouldnt lose sleep over them keeping Pedro down for even the rest of the year. Do what it takes to get him fully “prepared” for MLB pitching, which would be lower his K rate, up his BB rate and have better splits vs LHP. If that means he has to stay down until idk May, June, even July of next year, so be it.
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
Pedro going oppo
me likee.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 22, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
What am I missing?
Apparently the prevailing wisdom both amongst the fan base and in the front office is that in order to address the anemic offense the solution is to shuffle the roster so that in looks much more like it did last year… when the team finished dead last in the NL in run production and lost 105 games. Wooo Hooo! Steve Pearce to the rescue !?!?! good lord what a disaster this is going to be.
I hate to say it but I think the Pirates’ opportunity to make a move and acquire the legitimate middle of the order hitter they needed to keep this going is past and Huntington punted on it.
The team begin the long stretch of the toughest part of their schedule tonight – my prediction is they go 3-7 or worse – and they needed to do something to bolster the offense before then, but they didn’t. You might occasionally win a series like they just did against the Reds while scoring a total of four runs but that that’s not going to work against the Cards, Braves and Philliies the next ten days. It’s just not reasonable to expect the pitchers to throw back to back shutouts while Clint Hurdle does stupid things like batting Harrison, d’Arnaud and Paul second, Walker third andthen kills every scoring opportunity that arises by having his best hitters bunt.
They’ll likely still break the losing streak and finish above .500 but their chances of winning the division and making the playoffs are going to take a big hit the next ten games because Huntington failed to act in acquiring a bat to replace Overbay that everyone knows they need.
They should have signed Berkman or Pena in the off season like I kept saying at the time and then this wouldn’t be an issue.
when the team finished dead last in the NL in run production and lost 105 games
So why aren’t they losing at the same rate with the same people? Heck, even worse, when you count injuries and non-performances (Pedro, Tabata injury)
by BurgherKing on Jul 22, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Monday Morning QB much?
They should have signed Berkman or Pena in the off season like I kept saying at the time and then this wouldn’t be an issue.
You joined the board a month ago and have three comments. You credibility is sorely lacking.
this ^^
love it when newbies come up with the most ridiculous absolute statements…
by BurgherKing on Jul 22, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
The Bucs have
another week to evaluate Pierce and what he could bring to this team. Still time to make a deal for 1st baseman if necessary.
I just want to say...
that I think Steve Pearce is the Pirates’ offensive savior.
by King Oskar on Jul 22, 2011 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
I'm confused,
I thought that was “thick and juicy” (angus trademark), how do I tell the difference?
Also rec’d
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