Pirates 4, Cardinals 3: 10 Innings: Bucs Steal Crucial Win
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 24, 2011 5:31 PM EDT
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The Pirates won 4-3 in 10 innings after Xavier Paul hit an infield single, stole second, moved to third on an error and then came home on a sacrifice fly by Chase D'Arnaud to steal a win in extra innings. It was a good thing, too, as the Pirates pulled even with the Cards again and are now just a half-game back of Milwaukee. As badly as the first two games of this series went, I'm happy to see the Bucs get one out of three here.
I haven't yet watched Charlie Morton's start, but with five walks in 5.1 innings, it sounds like he was lucky to escape with three earned runs. The Pirates' relievers, including newcomer Jason Grilli, stepped up in a big way after he left.
Also, former Pirate Bert Blyleven was (finally) inducted into the Hall of Fame today.
UPDATE: The Brewers just lost to the Giants, so the Pirates are somehow back in first, tied with both the Brewers and Cardinals. Cool. The Cardinals start a home series against Houston tomorrow, unfortunately.
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They didn't steal the win
They won.
s.zielinski
Maybe it’s referencing the pivotal play in the 10th inning which was a steal. That and the fact that they won despite not playing a great game.
by Dignan on Jul 24, 2011 5:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think you’re thinking too hard about this, Steve.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 24, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
LaRussa put in a bunch of lefties and that’s why the Cardinals were able to chase him out of the game in the 6th inning.
Pujols, against all right handers went 0 for 5….
So onto my love rocket, climb, Inside tank of fuel is not fuel, but love.
Pujols
also lollipopped the throw to first in the 10th that Windows beat out and led directly to their loss.
Not a good day all-around for Prince Albert.
The throw was there
the pitcher just didn’t get his foot on the bag in time.
by WestCoastBuc on Jul 24, 2011 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Windows
Took me like 5 seconds to figure out why you called him that…i kind of like it but only as a one time thing hahaha
by nagihcimwolves50 on Jul 24, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It would help the Pirates a lot if
Morton and Searage devised a new strategy for Morton when he faces lefthanders. They seem to have little trouble with his sinker.
s.zielinski
true
morton seems to be throwing the hook more to LHBs, but i dont think thats going to work.
if he could figure out a way to throw “at” the LHB so that it would tail back over the corner, that may work, but easier said than done
Thank you
sweet baby Jesus.
I hate the Cardinals and I really hate LaRussa.
This win may save the season.
Pedro
2 for 3, a triple(!) and a walk today. Just sayin….
no strikeouts? and more hits? plus a walk? yeah id say he is starting to heat up
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
Starting to? He’s been hot for a week now, which is why I really hope we bring him back soon because we can’t score 13 runs in 6 games(8 of which came in 2 games alone) and go 3-3 for the rest of the season, we need some explosions now and again to stay in the race.
being hot for a week doesnt constitute for use all to think his problems are solved. if he does it for another week then yes, very good.
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
Fair enough. Still, given how much the offense has stalled since the ASG I think it’s about time we brought him back up. If, as is mentioned below, the reason they’re holding back is to let him come up and get hot against lesser pitchers then I’m ok with that; but if it’s just to let him continue to work his way back in AAA I think he’s already done that.
Pedro has already performed well at AAA in the past
He was sent down for 1 of 2 reasons:
1. Either the Pirates felt he needed to play lesser competition to get back to the right approach at the plate.
or, 2. So they could see him work on specific things.
If it’s the latter, then his raw line means nothing wrt his promotion. The Pedro we saw in the first half of this year is no advantage to the Bucs. If he were up, and performing at that level, people would be calling for him to be sent down. Now that he’s down, and has potential, people are calling for his promotion. I’m glad the FO (for the most part) has appeared to ignore these things.
IMO it’s #2. Dejan listed the items on the sports station on Friday. IIRC it’s wasting outside pitches (fouls), getting more walks, driving to the opposite field, and the like. Essentially they are focused long term on Pedro and anything they get this year is a bonus.
Yinzers uber alles
ah, i see
i rely entirely on the blogs for such info, and occasionally miss some (dont know if it was posted here)
by BurgherKing on Jul 24, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
What about bunting?
All the other things you listed are what you expect out of a #2 hitter. And if he is only hitting bloops (per MinD below), that’s OK for a #2 guy. I’m only half kidding.
by Central*Scrutinizer on Jul 25, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Definitely bunting
They’ll need him to sacrifice down two with runners on first and second, no out, and d’Arnaud on deck.
(he said, ducking)
Indeed, you are correct. I was unaware that while his overall numbers were good, he hasn’t been hitting the ball hard at all(which MarkInDallas told me below). So if that’s the reason they’re holding him in Indy then I’m totally for it, though eventually if we are on the verge of falling out of the race/pulling away, I think they’ll need to call him up regardless of that and give him the opportunity in the majors again.
Huntington said today
Pedro is now hitting the ball really well, but said his numbers last week were misleading because at one point he went 7 for 8 and only hit one ball hard.
by MarkInDallas on Jul 24, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the kind of info that is so…refreshing to get out of NH. Little stuff like that. Can you envision DL ever saying anything informative like this?
DL says:
If I were still General Manager, Brian Matusz would be our #1 starter. In Indianapolis.
So onto my love rocket, climb, Inside tank of fuel is not fuel, but love.
by IAPiratesFan on Jul 24, 2011 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
But against that
I bet the Overbay signing received the DL stamp of approval.
by WestCoastBuc on Jul 24, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I see no reason he isn’t with the team by the end of July
by StripesForLife on Jul 24, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
From listening to Hurdle and Huntington on the radio, it seems he’ll likely be up by the Cubs series at the latest.
Oh, that's good to hear
Obviously the numbers have been there, but NH has been quite clear that he wants to see more than a couple dingers off of Sean Gallagher-grade pitchers. Whether that was a motivational claim or the straight truth, it seems that Pedro is rising to the occasion.
It kind of goes without saying, but it’s incredible to think what a difference he could make to this lineup.
I honestly think...
it has everything to do with him avoiding the Braves and Phillies starters. Let him get on a roll in AAA, and come up when they face some lesser starters where he can keep on rolling. I think they are trying to avoid him going 4-25 against top notch starters, and then start to press. Don’t know if I agree if that is what they are doing, but I think it is entirely possible.
I think you may be right and ...
I am inclined to agree with them if that is indeen their thinking.
by WestCoastBuc on Jul 24, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
That's interesting you say this
But people have been clamoring for offensive help and we just saw how putrid the offense was against the Cardinals. I hate to say it, but this team needs to at worst split the next 2 series. I think they will need all the offensive help they can get, either internally or externally.
by StripesForLife on Jul 24, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
So is that the type of player the Pirates should draft #2 overall?
Just to pay him 6 million dollars in bonus money then hide him from contending teams with good pitchers?
I respectfully disagree with you. I believe he’s down in AAA to send a strong message that he needs to take his career more seriously then he has this past year.
Remember, Pedro got married this past off-season, and If I had to guess, I would say he didn’t work as hard as he should have to prepare for the season. I’m not so sure his main priority was/is baseball.
Many have high expectations from Pedro, but maybe he doesn’t have the same expectations………maybe he needs this wake up call? Maybe he needs a swift kick in the ass??
by Chucksberries on Jul 24, 2011 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think that Goodtymes idea
was to hide him indefinitely from top pitching, just that since he has been so bad so far this year, it might not be ideal to have him come up again and struggle that first week.
by WestCoastBuc on Jul 24, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Well this team, with it’s anemic line-up needs Pedro to be what he’s capable of being at this point in his career. I’d take the Pedro we saw last September.
by Chucksberries on Jul 24, 2011 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Well this team, with it’s anemic line-up needs Pedro to be what he’s capable of being at this point in his career.
NO (respectfully) this is the opposite of what we need. We need Pedro to develop and become the player for the next 5 years that is worthy of his draft choice. Anything this year is a bonus, record be damned. The worst case scenario is that he comes up and hits .205 like he was and is destroyed mentally as a player. He needs to clobber AAA and come up when he shows he’s ready.
Yinzers uber alles
+1
mental approach to the game and being able to discern balls and strikes, and what is what when its coming outta the pitchers hand
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 24, 2011 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Just to pay him 6 million dollars in bonus money then hide him from contending teams with good pitchers?
After a rehab assignment, dude! Big difference.
It’s not that they’re always going to hide him against good pitchers. But you want to make sure that this guy gets his swing right, and the last thing we need is for him to get called up and go into an 0-for-20 slump because he’s facing Halladay, et. al.
Or in other words, when you come into work on Monday morning, do you immediately tackle the hardest job of the week?
What makes you think he doesn’t have high expectations and isn’t taking his career seriously? Struggling at the plate doesn’t inherently equate to a lack of effort or desire.
by rj.reynolds on Jul 24, 2011 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Who could be back in first?
Yeah these damn Buccos…
by Joey Mooney on Jul 24, 2011 5:59 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Awesome
Losing one game on the Cardinals is a lot better than losing 3, now lets see what they’re made of. Hudson, Hanson, Jurrjens, Lowe, Halladay, Lee, and Worley….wow, anyone else thrilled with 3 wins out of that?
That’s a nasty stretch, what’s the over/under on total number of runs scored for the Bucs in those 7 games, maybe 20?
Who would take the over?
I guess Worley and Lowe could each give up a chunk, but can the Pirates score a chunk against anyone these days?
Given that we scored 13 runs in our last 6 games(albeit w/o Ronny the double-master and everyone’s savior Pearce for 3 of them) I’ll take the under, but barely. I think we’ll end up with 18 over the 7 games.
How sad is it that my first reaction was that 18 might be a little optimistic?
Man it would be nice if they could just explode in one of these games and get on track
Jurrjens hasn't been pitching well since the All Star break
So that’s a plus, at least.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
Jurrjens hasn’t been pitching well lately, Lowe can be gotten too, and Worley has walked a bunch this year. His xFIP is 4.01, he’ll regress soon. Hanson has also gotten rocked in his last two starts. Any of those are pretty winnable games, and our pitchers could certainly throw a gem against Atlanta’s anemic offense.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 24, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd certainly be okay with 3 wins
and then gain some ground back against the Cubs & Padres.
I wouldn’t say “thrilled.” I’d be thrilled with five wins.
d'Arnaud
Glad to see him contribute to the win, tripled his season rbi total, a k would have been terrible in that spot in the 10th but came through with the sac fly, good for him. Now comes the tough stretch, hope they can get some type of productive line-up for the upcoming series. Glad to see Pedro stringing good games together, hope he keeps it up and he can be up after they get through these tough pitchers.
Good win.
If they can go 4-3 or even 3-4 over ATL/PHL series that’d be good. Stay in it and battle the two best teams in the NL. (Of course, I’d like them to do better, but I’d be all right with 3-4).
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
Especially
since the series against the Pads and Cubs really should equal 4 wins, minimum.
Worth noting, btw: prior to the Cards series, the Bucs were the only team in the NLC with a winning record over the previous 10.
I'd be happy with 2.
unless we go on a long losing streak (which is possible) we’re heading back to the Burgh at or above .500 heading into August. Back in March (even in May) I’d gladly take that.
Watching in MLB.tv right now
Would like a little insurance, but I guess I should have faith in The Beard.
OK, that was funny
Brewers’ pitcher just threw a 2-1 pitch on the outside corner (or not), called a ball. Catcher holds it, then sort of tilts his head back and forth, as if to say, “Maybe? No? Maybe? I guess not.”
Wow
OK, I’m pretty sure Saito got several pitches called balls that went exactly where Wilson’s first called strike.
Ah, but not the second one.
And the third was clearly a bit more in, over the plate. But I imagine that Brewers’ fans are going nuts right now.
Why did I just turn on the Brewers/Giants game?
First thing I see is an awful Quick Trip commercial with the douche of the century.
One more, and then everyone's back in first place again.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
Bert Blyleven and Danny Murtaugh
Congrats to Bert Blyleven for his induction to Cooperstown, he was only a Buc for three seasons, but one of those was 1979. Blyleven did do something uncommon for a hall of fame player, quitting on the 1980 Pirates briefly while he was healthy enough to pitch during the second half of that season when the team was still in playoff contention. Blyleven has long since apologized for the incident, saying it was one of the regrets of his career.
Hopefully, next year, longtime manager Danny Murtaugh will join Blyleven in Cooperstwn,
Murtaugh has the resume, stacking up in the middle of managers already elected. He also won as many world titles as Whitey Herzog and eventual inductee Bobby Cox combined. It’s worth noting Murtaugh beat HOF managers Casey Stengel and Earl Weaver as underdogs in the ’60 and ’71 WS.
Funny thing
Reading the gameday thread today, you would have thought the Bucs were battling for 1st pick in the 2012 draft and look at that, they are back in 1st place.
Seriously. Last night, too. Granted last night was a bad loss...
…but yeah.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
this
i was going through yesterday’s gamethread this morning, since I havent been around during this weekend, and was thinking of writing a fanpost on why i think the Bucs are pretty much in the same position they were in at the ASB.
Now that they actually won today, I think the collective freakout has mellowed somewhat, so I’ll wait for a similar fan meltdown to do it, but really, I don’t see much different from what we’ve had all season. The trade deadline is playing havoc with people’s heads, and it seems esp those that have recently started paying attention (or, at least, on here anyway)
I think anytime the Bucs lose a couple games in a row, people fear the wheels are going to come off completely. I’m not sure that fear is totally unfounded, frankly.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 24, 2011 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah Charlie...
We’ve certainly been conditioned in that direction.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
It's not only a matter of conditioning
The 2011 team is just not that strong that we can count on it to remain in contention for the rest of the season.
s.zielinski
Its not so much that for me
Honestly, we are a dozen or so bad pitches away from being 5 games under .500, but they have found a way to pull out so many games that they wouldn’t have won in the past. The thing that has gotten on my nerves the last few days is how much so many posters hate our players…like all of them. Complaining about 2nd, 3rd, and 4th options in a lot of cases seems pointless to me. Am I thrilled with the lineup? No, not really. But damn it, they are winning.
I can’t wait for the trade deadline to be over and done with, even if we don’t make any moves just to squash all of the ridiculousness that has been going on here.
Yeah but then we're going to start in on the signing deadline
and that could be just as bad or even worse.
by WestCoastBuc on Jul 24, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah d'Arnaud's been broken during the warm-up
No love lost for their own players from these fans obviously——
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Jul 24, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
we are a dozen or so bad pitches away from being 5 games under .500,
so what does that tell you? these guys are making pitches when they have to. but KC really needs to get his stuff straightened out. even if pedro comes back after the brave philies stint they they will still need the starters to throw some good innings. i’m not so worried about paul as i am KC
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 24, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the reason so many people are upset at our lineup is because they know it could/should be a lot better. Ideally, we’d have Tabata and Snyder starting, Meek in the pen, Ohlendorf back in some capacity, and Doumit as our big bat off the bench(and starting on occasion), not to mention Pedro and Presley as well.
When, instead of all that, you’re starting the bipolar d’Arnaud, the shouldn’t-be-starting Diaz, and Eric Fryer behind the plate, it gets on everyone’s nerves when we’re not scoring runs.
yeah, so players are injured
and in spite of that, we are above .500 and in first place. Enjoy the season, quit bitchin’!
(not directed at you, Akshay R— directed at the pointless bitching toward the FO that I’m seeing all over)
people fear the wheels are going to come off completely
It is a fear that is certainly justified. That is not, however, what I am referring to when i speak of a “freakout”. It’s stuff like “why aren’t we getting X?” or “why haven’t we made a move yet?” that bugs me. I mean, why hasn’t somebody managed to trade for X? Because teams are waiting to figure out the best deal they can get for X, and won’t trade him just yet unless blown away. “Why aren’t they going after Y?” Of course, no one actually knows they aren’t going after Y, but strawmen are getting KO’d all over the place.
OT
First I have heard this, but Bud Selig is stepping down after next season! Thank God. Can’t wait for that horses ass to be gone.
Seligula steps down
Frank Coonelly replaces him?
s.zielinski
Ross Ohlendorf melting down in Altoona…
Both Brett Lorin and Rudy Owens had nice starts. 7IP for both, Lorin gave up a run, Owens none.
Lorin and Grossman need moved up. Maybe waiting for the deadline to pass before a move now…
Can people believe in Pirates?
People on espn believe they will be in the race come September. So many people on here still think they wont… I just hope NH gets these guys some much needed help!
by Joey Mooney on Jul 24, 2011 7:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
worst analysis ever
Some guy on the sports station in pitt is on now talking about selling the prospecs and going for it. Did smizik get a show? Good grief.
Yinzers uber alles
by BostonBuc on Jul 24, 2011 7:10 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
meh
thats inline with just about every trade scenario post on this board tbh
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 24, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I expect more from people getting paid and I don’t agree. Eighty percent of the posts on this board are better than what I heard this weekend.
Yinzers uber alles
by BostonBuc on Jul 24, 2011 7:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you clearly arent reading all the comments on the trade scenarios threads or on some of the fan shots
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 24, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
The person filling in for Joe Bendel Friday(his name escapes me at the moment) suggested trading Marte, Allie and Sanchez for Hunter Pence, quite possibly the worst trade I’ve heard thus far, and that’s saying something. If NH thinks we can legitimately compete this year and thinks it’s worth trading a prospect or 2 for a big bat, I’m all for it, but to trade 3 of our top 5 prospects for an OF is just idiotic as we already have 3 solid young OF’s in Cutch, Tabata and Pence.
Now, that’s not to say I wouldn’t love to acquire Pence, if we can get him for a reasonable price, then by all means go for it. But to suggest we trade 3 top prospects for an A-minus level player at a non-desperately-in-need-of-upgrade position just baffles me.
as we already have 3 solid young OF’s in Cutch, Tabata and Pence
Pence plays for us now?!? Dang, NH is a slick one. YES!
And I don’t even consider Pence an A- level player. Probably a B, maybe a B-.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 24, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you for offering such compelling evidence to support your opinion. He’s a 3 to 4 win player. How would that make him anywhere near an A?
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 24, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention an A- is typically around 90%. So you would expect an A- hitter to generally be around the 90th percentile in hitters. If you look at last season’s hitters, Fangraphs has 149 qualifying hitters. If you take Pence’s peak WAR of 4.1, and place it among hitters from last year, it puts him in 44th place. That places him in the 71st percentile of hitters last season, which actually grades out to be a C-.
Now, a typical grading scale is not necessarily applicable, but nonetheless a 71st percentile performance for his peak season is not an A level player in anyway. Therefore, I do not think my approximation of him as a B or B- level player is unrealistic whatsoever.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 24, 2011 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Furthermore, using his peak season only, and comparing it to only one year is an attempt to make him look as good as possible. Comparisons could easily be made where Pence performed well below the 71st percentile.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 24, 2011 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Even so I'm glad I never had you for a teacher
since you figure the 71st percentile is a C-. I agree with your overall point though; I don’t want Pence unless he came pretty cheaply.
by WestCoastBuc on Jul 24, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Have you never gotten a 71? That’s a C-, just missing a D. Unless you have an extremely friendly grading scale. On my old grading scale that actually was a D.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 24, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I think there is a difference between being in the 71st percentile
and getting 71% right on a test.
by WestCoastBuc on Jul 24, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s also why I mentioned that an academic scale probably isn’t suitable for baseball, since it is very different. Nonetheless, the 71st percentile is not an A level performance. Hence, why I think of him as a B or B- level player.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 24, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Good question. I spent a lot of time in the car driving to and from Westmoreland county and wanted to get a feel for the buzz in the city. For me, it’s great to hear people talking about the Pirates instead of who’s rooming with who at Steeler training camp. Last year I sat in a “sports bar” in Pitt that didn’t even have the Pirates on in April. When I asked them to turn on the game they were miffed I didn’t want to watch the national broadcast. So I’m glad the Pirates are relevant again.
Yinzers uber alles
The Brewers and Cards both have home series against the Cubs and Astros this week. If the Bucs can stay within a game of first over the next week, it will be a large success.
heres to hoping
cubs and stros get hot
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 24, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think to be due you have to have good players.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 24, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Weirder stuff has happened i mean...
The Phillies have won a world series or two…
by Joey Mooney on Jul 24, 2011 7:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
“I think to be due you have to have good players.”
Astros have Pence and Cubs have Pena. Basically any team with those players should be a contender.
I think to be due you have to have good players.
right because soriano, soto, castro, aram, pena all suck
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 24, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that was more directed towars the Stros. The Cubs have some good players. The Astros have like, 1 1/2 ish.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 24, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Did Carlos Lee eat the other 1/2?
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto
by blackjackfishtaco on Jul 24, 2011 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
no
he at the other 6 and a half (not counting the pitchers of course. thus the size of his cheeks…they are stuffed with the remains of the astros organization
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 24, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Obligatory
That’s not how sports work, teams are never “due”
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Twitter: @shanecglass
I think that for the next week or so . . .
we should worry less about first and just worry about trying to play .500. We’re playing the two best teams in the NL, while our rivals are playing two of the worst. There will be lots of time to make up ground on them in August and September.
Indeed
Obviously, the Pirates themselves shouldn’t think this way…but as fans, I think there’d be plenty to be happy about if the Bucs tread water over the next 7 games.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
Kruk and Larkin want Beltran as a....
Pittsburgh Pirate… Come on ownership. We need a bat!
by Joey Mooney on Jul 24, 2011 7:29 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
not for that kinda cost
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 24, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I agree!
But even you gotta admit they need offensive help and however NH can bring it and keep his prospects he needs to do it. I want Thrilledge back!
by Joey Mooney on Jul 24, 2011 7:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don’t agree with bringing in any 2-month rental unless the cost is minimal. We’re not at the point where we can be certain that we’ll be contending this season, and trading multiple prospects for a rental would be disastrous if we don’t make it this season. The cost for Beltran would just be too high to make it worthwhile, especially since he’s an OF and we already have Cutch, Tabata and Presley doing pretty well out there. If we can acquire Pena for a reasonable price then I think that’s realistically our best option to add a power bat at the deadline.
Agree
I’d much rather replace Overbay than add an OF. At one point I wouldn’t have minded seeing them add an OF and moving Jones to 1B, but watching him flail away the last few games has cured me of that notion.
by WestCoastBuc on Jul 24, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
To be perfectly honest, this team could upgrade at every position except CF and closer.
Obvisously no team has the resources to do that, but I do think 1B is a bigger need and easier to find. I’ve been hoping for Overbay to turn it around all year, but at some point you just have to move on. Everybody raved about his defense, but he hasn’t been anything like I expected. He just hasn’t cut it with the stick either.
by StripesForLife on Jul 24, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Pena won’t cost a lot. Willingham won’t cost alot. Especially if NH holds out and makes the teams wait til the last minute.
Those two are significant upgrades over Jones and Overbay.
But totally agree on the 1B upgrade. I swear, if Overpaid is still manning 1B for us after next Sunday, I may cry.
Best case would be NH pulling off some type of Church/Crosby for Snyder highway robbery like last season and getting rid of Overbay while getting a return. Worst case is the Cubs ask too much for Pena and NH says “screw you” and we’re forced to stick with Overbay.
I think the likely case is that if we don’t acquire Pena(or another 1B, though Pena remains our best bet), Jones ends up playing 1st most nights once Tabata and Presley come back, because for all the hope we had that Overbay would provide some power, he’s generally done little more than deep flyouts and soft grounders, that’s for sure. Jones may not be a world-beater by any means, but he’s certainly better than Overbay.
Yeah, I mean Jones is at least around league average.
Overbay…not so much.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
Kind of agree on rentals
I’s be willing to trade a number of B- – C prospects for a good rental; we have a lot of those guys. What I think would be crazy would be trading from among out top 5-8 for rentals.
Bear in mind that adding Pedro + a Beltran to this team gives us and above 50% shot at the playoffs. Are the playoffs worth (say) a Locke or a Gorkys or a Cunningham? I say hell yes. The type of player I’m talking about will not be make or break in 2013 or ’14; useful, sure but (likely) not critical.
Remember, we thought we got some great returns on rental-grade players, when in fact they turned out to be Clement, Bowker, and Alderson. B prospects are that for a a reason.
Is there anyway to get Carlos Queintin from Chicago? I’ve always liked him as a player and I heard a rumor Chicago might try to dump his salary.
by StripesForLife on Jul 24, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I wanted Carlos Quintin last offseason
he was a good buy low candidate. Neal dropped the ball on that one.
Started the homestand 0.5 back....
…..came out of it in first place, with a line-up that was…uhhh….sub-optimal. I gotta believe we’re collecting on 18 years of hidden vigorish!
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
by dr_roxtar on Jul 24, 2011 7:48 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
By the way, anyone else kind of amazed at how Milwaukee’s played 4 more games than us so far? Maybe it’s just because this is the first time I’ve looked at the standings this late in…ever, but it’s rather surprising to me that there’s more than a 2 game difference in games played between teams in the same division when we’re nearly finished with July.
Geez Charlie...
why so negative?
Stealing a victory? We’re “somehow” tied for 1st again?
We lost two games, man. Two games to the Cards, and all of a sudden the world was collapsing.
Hey, look, I get it. This lineup is awful right now. A bunch of Triple-A players filling in. I was somewhat surprised we won today. But this team has been without Doumit, Alvarez , Cedeno — he’s now back — and Tabata for a while now and we’re “somehow” stayed near or at the top of the division.
I think we’re gonna “somehow” stay in the race til the end. But we need upgrades at 1B and in the OF.
Seriously
Your going to play the “why so negative” card?
What you posted was the exact sentiment I was expressing to you, hurdle28, etc today in the game thread. Why the sudden change of heart from the doom and gloom attitude?
cause we won
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 24, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Huh?
I don’t remember being doomy and gloomy except for when talking about Overbay and Pearce, which is warranted.
And I was among the majority in thinking we weren’t gonna win with today’s lineup.
If Charlie was using the term “somehow” in reference to winning today’s game with that lineup, then I apologize. But I’m not surprised to be in first place. We’ve been competitive for four months now.
I believe the somehow is in reference to the difference in records of the 3 teams. Considering MIL is 1 percentage point behind both PIT and STL. At least that’s how I read Charlie’s use of “somehow”…mostly because I had the same thought.
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto
by blackjackfishtaco on Jul 24, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
oh guys
with the line up we trotted out there today we did in fact steal a victory, particularly if you compound that with the 5 free passes chuckles issued today. and are you really wonder why he put the phrase “somehow in first place” really? ffs we just dropped the first two by a combined 15 to 3 or something like that…c’mon folks
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 24, 2011 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
ok
SOMEHOW this team is in first place despite having a weak offense, a ton of injuries and a pitching staff that’s last in the league in Ks.
Let’s face it, this has been a miracle first 100 games and I’m hoping — not expecting — it will last until October. For me, anything that happens the rest of the way is gravy because I never expected this team to be in first place in late July, and I certainly didn’t think they’d be able to make rapid improvement without Pedro Alvarez.
im just kinda peeved i guess
at people not believing we stole this one. i on the other hand expect 82 wins this year, anything on top of that is like extra bacon on a bacon cheese burger (i know not as snappy as gravy but you stole my line…ffs). it will defiantly be interesting to see what happens when the majority of our original line up gets off the dl. hell we may not “need” a bat at the deadline if pedro and doumit play to their potential offensively. But we shall see i guess. the more wins this club gets before those guys get back, the less likely it is that we don’t do two things:
1) break the slide
2) make the playoffs
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 24, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
i mean hell
if we are still near the top of the standing (i.e. within 3 games) once those bubba’s get back i like our chances….a lot.
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 24, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
This team is missing four of its best six hitters in Presley, Alvarez, Tabata, and Doumit. I know there’s almost no talent right now, but the fact they’re still afloat while missing what they’re missing is commendable.
Take Berkman, Molina, Freese, and Holliday away from the Cards and see how their bench players hold up starting. We should all be fine with 3-3 on that homestand.
No jinx no jinx no jinx.
by Suffering Buc on Jul 24, 2011 9:49 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
So, assumig the trade deadline comes and goes
and we haven’t picked up a new 1B option, is it feasible that NH will bring up Hague to, at the very least, split time at 1st? At this point, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me that he is just hanging out in AAA while Overbay flails away at 1st. Honestly, could it be that they are waiting to see if they don’t pick up a better option? I really see no other reason.
Honestly, could it be that they are waiting to see if they don’t pick up a better option?
that makes a bit of sense yeah, while pull him up if your going to have a new dude at first anyway within a week. but maybe they see something in hague that we don’t
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 24, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
@Kristy_Robinson
If Alex Presley was to land on the DL (left thumb) GM Huntington said that John Bowker “certaintly becomes guy that may be able to help us”
Would make my day.
Barf
This isn’t really for bringing up Bowker, I just fucking don’t want AP to be on the DL. God, that would suck hard.
by Zach Buccos on Jul 25, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not crazy about this...
simply because Bowker is a Pearce clone. He rips Triple-A pitching while doing nothing against big leaguers.
Ugh.
by mspirate on Jul 25, 2011 12:17 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Pearce has been much better than Bowker fwiw...
and it’s either Bowker or Gorkys Hernandez so pick your poison. I guess we know Gorkys would bring very good defense. I would think Hague’s an option too but I haven’t heard Clint or Neal mention he’s a possibility.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
mspirate makes a good point there, slick
bowker and pearce are too good for AAA, but neither has proven they belong in the majors. pearce, however, has more value because of versatility. bowker is basically another tagg bozied
Overbay .661 OPS -6 UZR
Bowker career. .679 OPS (.719 against RHP) plus range on D but error prone in small samples
Bowker is 1 of many 1B in the org who would immediately upgrade our team.
wait
i thought he was in the of. they move him to first cause of clement?
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 25, 2011 5:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Gorkys is due for a call up.
he’d be servicable until they acquire that RF power bat
Heard a lot of people refer to this win as a slap to the mouth of the Cardinals. I don’t know about that considering they did pummel us in those first two games and we barley squeaked by with this one. It’s still a meaningful win, but don’t look too much into it.
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