Phillies 7, Pirates 4: Cliff Lee Dominates In Hunter Pence's Phillies Debut

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 30, 2011 10:17 PM EDT

I'm surprised this one was as close as it was. The Phillies' offense was excellent, knocking out 16 hits, few of them cheap. That includes a huge bomb to center by Ryan Howard, a homer by Jimmy Rollins, and four other extra-base hits. James McDonald struck out five and walked two but still gave up five runs over five innings.

Meanwhile, the Pirates' offense was probably worse than the four runs might make it look. Pedro Alvarez homered, and off a lefty, no less. But Cliff Lee struck out 11 and walked only two, and the Pirates as a team struck out 15 times.

Hunter Pence made his Phillies debut tonight, and the cheers were enormous. Cory Giger has been making a point on Twitter today that I was also thinking about earlier today - that a team like the Phillies can afford to give up a really good prospect like Jonathan Singleton in part because they can afford to pay for stars who are past their team-controlled years. Many of their stars - Chase Utley, Rollins, Lee, Roy Halladay, Roy Oswalt - are guys with more than six years of service time, and with their payroll, the Phillies can keep them. The Pirates really can't, or at best they can afford to keep one or two. So when the Phillies want someone like Pence down the stretch, they can trade someone like Singleton. It really doesn't matter. The Pirates can't, because they can't afford to lose out on Singleton if he becomes a cheap, cost-controlled star. That's a hidden advantage that teams like the Phillies have, and they look like much more of a contender right now than the Pirates do.

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Big story tonight is.... D Lee

by Joey Mooney on Jul 30, 2011 10:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

Phillies have the best record in baseball may go on to win the World Series

this year, so it’s obvious the Pirates aren’t in this class, a year removed from the worst record in MLB. At least tonight was competitive, and the Bucs had a shot down 6-4 late in this one. Unfortunately, baseball’s unequal economic system is what it is, so Philadelphia will have a built-in advantage over most teams in MLB.

Did a little research, and the Cards and Brewers still have four games each with Philly, and Milwaukee still has three with Atlanta. Meanwhile, the Bucs have seven very winnable games at home to open August, along with a bunch of games coming up against the Brewers and Cards. Point being, even a loss tomorrow isn’t the end of the world, and Derrick Lee and whoever else could provide a spark.

by SteelStealth on Jul 30, 2011 10:28 PM EDT reply actions

What?

You do realize if Pirates win tomorrow and the Pirates are 3-3 against them this year. What class is that?

by Joey Mooney on Jul 30, 2011 10:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

I think he means

The Pirates aren’t in the same class as the Phils are in terms of how their hitters and pitchers perform compared to their team. Hey if we can win tommorrow and split the season series i’ll be fine. That means out of this tough streach we would be won 6 out of 13. That fact we even won a series againist the Phils and won more than three games in this streach is a acclompishment of it’s own.

As for Pedro, Charlie who cares what handed pitcher he hit his HR off of. The guys produced tonight, which is more I san say for most of this lineup outside of a couple of guys.

by Bradley James McEachern on Jul 30, 2011 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions

I don’t know. It’s more impressive that he hit one off a lefty than if he had hit one off a righty.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 30, 2011 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions

It's impressive

When anyone hits a HR regardless of which hand the pitcher pitches with. HR’s a hard to come by for this team. The fact that Predo hit one regardless is good with me.

by Bradley James McEachern on Jul 31, 2011 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions

Correction

I should of said compared to OUR team.

by Bradley James McEachern on Jul 30, 2011 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions

its okay

we’re still the most improved team in baseball. that is good enough for me

by white angus on Jul 30, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes it is, and would love to see a win tomorrow to even the

season series 3-3. However, the Phillies were a world championship caliber team before adding Pence, so the Bucs aren’t at that consistent level yet.

by SteelStealth on Jul 30, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions

What?

They were a championship caliber team before adding Lee, Halladay, Oswalt, Pence, and whoever else who doesn’t have a ring.

by Joey Mooney on Jul 30, 2011 11:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Exactly

I can’t speak for everyone else here but all I want this season is for the Pirates to improved finish above .500 this year, if we win 82-83 games this year that will be a acclompishment. I’m just happy that the Pirates are going out there trying to win games, competing for the most part and have that mentality that they can on most nights try to go out there and win games againist good teams and they been doing that this year. Most importantly it’s been great to see the fan come to PNC and pack the place for non concerts/bobbleheads/fireworks nights is a great things to see. Not to mention that for the first time in a very long time the organization has a step in the right direction in terms on growth and development of the ball club and that were still talking about the Bucs instead of preparing for Steeler season.

What makes this all not fun to watch at times is you got people outside this blog on the papers and the radio that makes watching this team unbearable saying we need to trade everyone for Pence and going for broke because were going to suck for a very very long time after this. Hearing those people and their trade demands makes me angry and makes me realize that these people don’t really know the Pirates farm system wise.

But were improving and were trying to making things happen, that’s just fine with me. Good post White Angus.

by Bradley James McEachern on Jul 30, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions

I wasn’t around all night. What sort of showing did Steve Pearce make? I know a lot of people on the site are big fans of his.

by ChefAutomatic on Jul 30, 2011 10:30 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

Please stop!

by Joey Mooney on Jul 30, 2011 10:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Stop what? I was just trying to get an update on one of Bucs Dugout’s more highly touted players.

by ChefAutomatic on Jul 30, 2011 10:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

He had a bad game

by Joey Mooney on Jul 30, 2011 10:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

I suggest

stop wasting everyones time including your own and learn how to read a boxscore.

#31 All Day...

by SmokyB on Jul 30, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Knock it off.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 30, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Knock what off?

by ChefAutomatic on Jul 30, 2011 10:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Trolling.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 30, 2011 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Charlie my apologies

I talked about Lars tonite. He got traded to Oakland. I feel a bit redeemed because Harden is a pretty good pitcher. Anyway, I will let Lars go now but he will be a star and we could have had him cheap.

by fatbastard on Jul 30, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions

who is Lars?

#31 All Day...

by SmokyB on Jul 30, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Aaron Baker it is

I’m totally cool with this

by Zach Buccos on Jul 30, 2011 11:11 PM EDT reply actions

A note on what the Phils can afford

I agree with the basic premise, that an aspect of not being so cost constrained is being able to give up possible cheap studs for certainly non-cheap studs. But there’s 50 WAR between replacement level and division winning, and not even the Yankees can pay market rate for all 50. If you don’t get 10-20 wins from league minimum guys, then you end up a 75 win team with a $150M payroll.

I won’t deny that finding 40+ wins out of a $80M payroll is much harder, but it remains the case that no team can make it to the postseason without productive, cost-controlled players, and several of them.

by JRoth95 on Jul 30, 2011 11:49 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

I agree with the need for some cost-controlled players by any team

I also wonder why it is assumed that the Pirates can’t keep their players after their service time is up. It isn’t a foregone conclusion that the Pirates wouldn’t sell out PNC most nights if they became a competitive team. The early returns are very promising. The “starved” argument as an explanation for the crowds, or why they wouldn’t increase if the team stayed competitive, seems weak to me.

Comparisons to the early 1990s are useless. So much has changed: Pittsburgh and surrounding areas have changed, baseball’s target demographic has changed, and the Pirates have gone from playing in a pit that you simply endure as the cost of seeing a baseball game to playing in a stadium that God himself would have a tough time improving upon. The Pirates also have the benefit of playing in a town with a hockey team that is charging absolute premium sporting event prices, which makes the Bucs, even at higher prices, seem like a bargain.

Neither Atlanta nor Philadelphia were thought of as “big” market or big baseball places until they started winning regularly. I get that the Pirates’ broadcast deal will never be as lucrative as some other markets’, but I’ve always heard that it’s reported to be better than most of the so-called “small” market deals.

by RafaelBelliup on Jul 31, 2011 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions

I don't know how "hidden" this advantage is

Just sayin’

by Aphthakid on Jul 31, 2011 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

A hidden advantage?

It honestly worries me that the benefits of having a higher payroll and being able to spend money on proven, uncontrolled talent instead of not being able to afford only team controlled players is considered a “hidden” advantage…

Seriously, hidden? I don’t know where to begin if that’s what people are thinking around here. I stopped posting for the most part because I got tired of constantly arguing, but that is a seriously poor assessment of a situation.

by JimiL on Jul 31, 2011 12:36 PM EDT reply actions