More Trade Fun!

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 6, 2011 6:26 PM EDT

With the trade deadline appro... oh who am I kidding. Screw an introduction.

Personally, I think we should only trade to fill two major "holes." I think those holes are SS and 1B. I think our OF is fine, even with Tabata on the DL. I don't see a catcher out there who's much better than a McHenry, JJ, Fryer combo, and that's only until Doumit gets back. I'll take Pedro over anything we can rent at 3B, and if he never produces, just play Brandon Wood there. Even though Ronny has been solid, I'd like to upgrade at SS and upgrade Overbay (and his -0.6 WAR according to fangraphs) at first. For all of these I consider Tony Sanchez, Starling Marte, Luis Heredia, Jameson Taillon, and Stetson Allie untouchable.

Shortstop

I think J.J. Hardy would be a good addition. Hardy is currently on pace for over 4.0 WAR, he's always been talented, and he's had two 4.0+ WAR seasons before, so I believe he can keep it up. He won't be cheap (as far as prospects) but he won't be Reyes or Matt Kemp expensive. If the O's would take a Lincoln, Presley, Grossman/Mercer package, I'd say pull the trigger. Maybe pay a bit more, but much not more, as he's only a 3 month rental at the moment.

Stephen Drew is another possibility. He's on his way to a similar season, although he hasn't been too impressive with the stick. On the upside he's controlled through 2013, but on the downside that may inflate his value. Maybe Lincoln, Presley, D'Arnaud for Drew.

First Base

First base is oddly shallow this year as far as trade possibilities.

Daric Barton is a buy low candidate. He's worth negative WAR right now, but is young, gets on base and plays tremendous D. His 5.1 WAR season last year was mainly due to his defense, but he posted a respectable .359 wOBA. That's down significantly this year, but that's due in part to a .260 BABIP compared to a career .294 line. A's might not sell since his stock was down, but if they did he shouldn't cost too much. He's also controlled through 2014

Gaby Sanchez is having a great year. By way of above average hitting and defense, he's on pace for a 5.0+ WAR season. Even though he's almost 28, I'd open up the farm a bit more for him as a 1B with good plate discipline, decent power, and good defense who's controlled through 2015.

Michael Morse is having a decent season. He's not great with the glove, but would provide power from 1B. He's controlled through 2013, and the Nationals might be willing to move him for a decent price.

Crazy Stuff

The headline title says it all. I'm really interested in getting responses to this by the way, as I love these type of hypothetical trades.

If you are the GM of the Pirates, and GM of the Braves calls you and says "Hey, is McCutchen on the block; we need a CF and the last one you gave us was a bum." You reply, "Heck no, he isn't [pause], why?" The other GM responds, "Just wondering, I was going to offer Juilo Teheran, Randall Delgado, Edward Salcedo, and Jordan Schafer; Call me back if you have any interest." Before you respond he hangs up.

You began to lean back in your chair, your head hurting, when the phone rings again. This time it's the GM of the Texas Rangers. He says "Hey, I was wondering if we could somehow pry McCutchen off of you guys." He waits as you don't respond in disbelief. Awkwardly he continues, "Uhhh.. so ya, I was thinking Jurickson Profar, Martin Perez, Michael Olt and Luke Jackson..." You still can't respond, so he thanks you for your time (again awkwardly) and hangs up.

You sit back and began to think. Who do you call back? Both teams, the Rangers, the Braves, neither?

I'll wait a bit, think about it myself some more, and then offer my input.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

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Comments

Wow...

You call both of them back, say no, then proceed to explain that there would be no quicker way to kill the burgeoning excitement that the city is feeling than to trade your marquee player. Also, why would we trade Lincoln Presley and one of the other two guys for a 3 month rental? That’s how you deplete the farm system.

by cruisers202 on Jul 6, 2011 6:42 PM EDT reply actions

I say no to both. Any trade involving McCutchen is going to have to involve a current major league player in addition to prospects. And it’s going to have to be a better player than Schafer.

by thecheeseisblue on Jul 6, 2011 6:50 PM EDT reply actions

neither for Cutch

Your suggestions for Hardy is wayyyyy over what the O’s would possibly hope to get. I also don’t understand why you want to consider Allie untouchable. Anytime you can get a “premier” player (put it in quotes because it depends on your definition) in a package with a guy in SS ball, go for it.

I mean, if the Bucs were legitimately in contention and had to fill a big hole at SS with Hardy, I’d gladly give up Allie for that. (Not that I want it this year, or that I think the Os will take it, but just putting forward a hypothetical)

by BurgherKing on Jul 6, 2011 6:58 PM EDT reply actions

Allie is literally untouchable, I think

Can’t trade him for a year after he starts playing in the org (and the PTBNL dodge won’t work, as they have to be named within six months).

I think. I could have this wrong.

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Jul 6, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions

yeah, but Allie will qualify

At the signing deadline, he’ll have been a Pirate for a year

by BurgherKing on Jul 6, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions

I personally consider him

untouchable for anyone not named Reyes, Kemp, or Hanley. We have enough depth of B- prospects and ML ready guys (Presley, D’Arnaud, Lincoln etc) that I’d rather trade them.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 6, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions

oh, of course

depends on what he’s bringing back…

by BurgherKing on Jul 6, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Michael Morse used PEDs

So I’m not sure if his stats are for real, or “enhanced”.

by H2O on Jul 6, 2011 7:21 PM EDT reply actions

No way in hell

do I trade Cutch for either package. This is the new face of the Bucs and would liken it to the Yanks trading away Jeter in his prime. Also, players like Cutch don’t grow on trees and are few and far in between. I def like your idea about trading for Hardy. But I wouldn’t do it for the package you mentioned. I truly do believe that 2 of Gorkys/Owens/Morris/Wilson/Locke would be more than enough. If for no other reason than the fact you mentioned him being a rental. Now if the Orioles would do a sign and trade deal, yeah I might consider a slight increase in my offer. As far as first base in concerned, considering what might be available, I’d rather go with a Jones/Pierce/Hague combo instead of trading.

Now if you truly are adamant about getting another power option for 1B and using young good talent in the minors, how bout making trade for 1B Goldschmidt from Arizona?

by Enchinga on Jul 6, 2011 7:31 PM EDT reply actions

So no one is biting?

I’d probably buy a place to hide out and do the Rangers deal.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 6, 2011 8:04 PM EDT reply actions

The thing is, dealing a young star player is tricky. You have to get a centerpiece in the deal that you can sell the fanbase on. And that centerpiece cannot fail. So it almost has to be someone with major league experience. Teheran and Perez and Profar may turn out to be great, but when you’re giving up someone like Cutch, it’s too much of a gamble until they’ve proven themselves in the bigs.

by thecheeseisblue on Jul 7, 2011 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions

The Texas package is more intriguing than Atlanta's, although you might get the best player offered in Julio

But I’d say no to both…awfully tempting, but no.
In regards to your suggestion, I wouldn’t put Marte in the untouchable package, and I’d possibly look at some sort of trade built around Marte and Pence. With everyone healthy, if they got Pence, you’d look at an OF of McC, Pence and a Tabata/Presley platoon in left, Alvarez, Ronny, Walker, and Jones/Pearce around the IF, and Doumit at C. Not too bad, actually.
In regards to possibly 1B options, what about Carlos Pena? Not really the most exciting player (like Barton) but functionally effective nonetheless.

by NastyNate82 on Jul 6, 2011 8:07 PM EDT reply actions

Agree, in regard to "face of the franchise"

I’ll admit that I didn’t take the time to look up all the stats of the players involved, but unless someone is offering the ghost of Ted Williams, I don’t think you move Cutch right now.

Just as we say that certain players are more valuable to us than other teams for various reasons, Cutch is hugely valuable not only as the “face of the franchise.” Typically I’d be the first to say that all trades should be evaluated unemotionally, but the Streak changes all the normal rules.

by Garrett122 on Jul 6, 2011 8:29 PM EDT reply actions

PNC Park would burn to the ground

If Cutch is sold to the highest bidder

by BadAndy on Jul 6, 2011 9:53 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

I’d take Hanson + Heyward or Moreland, Holland + Profar

by Mr. E on Jul 6, 2011 10:00 PM EDT reply actions

for Cutch?

in your view, Moreland, Holland and Profar = Hanson + Heyward?

by BurgherKing on Jul 7, 2011 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions

I just saw

Hanson and Heyward would be a know brainer and they are much, much more valuable than the Rangers package.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 7, 2011 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions

I'll bite

You’re one of my favorite posters on here, so I’ll gladly banter with you about this.

First of all, J.J. Hardy. I read the MLBtraderumors chat from earlier today, and the author predicted the cost for Hardy is a top 100 prospect plus another piece. That’s pretty steep. You’re looking at Starling Marte, basically, as Taillon is too much and they have zero use for Sanchez, who’s likely trending off the top 100 lists anyways. So, if the price is something like Starling Marte and Colten Cain (assuming the term “piece” applies to something of value and not a throw-in) for a guy that has had significant injury problems, I’ll pass right now. He’s going to get paid in a big way as well.

20) Gabby Sanchez would be a great get, but he’s been putting up pretty awesome numbers for peanuts in Florida, and that’s pretty much their norm down there. You’d have to give up major league ready players with limited service time, and the Pirates don’t have much of value in that ilk. D’Arnaud/Harrison/Lincoln/non-Hanrahan relievers/Presley are extra piece guys, and none are sure things to be more than extra outfielders/utility infielders/middle relief guys.

Nationals are more or less in the same boat as the Pirates. Morse is having an All-Star season for a team struggling like hell to break through and post a winning record. He’d cost a fortune based on fan value if not real value, in my opinion. Sort of like Paul Maholm.

3) The Atlanta offer is more appealing to me on the top end, while the Texas offer has more depth. Teheran is the best prospect, and Delgado is a damn fine one as well, but Schaffer is trash and Salcedo hasn’t done much yet (correct me if I’m wrong, don’t follow him closely)

Martin Perez is a perpetual tease. Great stuff, poor results, still plenty young to figure it out and dominate or just totally flame out. Profar has show great power and athleticism, but is only in A-Ball. It’s a huge problem, because if he does it again in Double-A next year there’s no chance they get him.

Here’s my hypothetical…..Cutch for Hak-Ju Lee, Desmond Jennings, and Matt Moore

by Woo! on Jul 6, 2011 10:41 PM EDT reply actions

Salcedo

has had a great year. Check out his stats. That’s why I took him over A. Simmons.

I personally LOVE Profar. I think he’s going to be a superstar at SS. I’d for sure bite on that third one as well.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 6, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Most Pirate fans wouldn't though

On a related note….read this article if you haven’t already. If Pena’s price is seriously 3 million and some LOW-end pitchers, sign me up.

http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/07/buyers-or-sellers-can-the-pirates-be-both.html

by Woo! on Jul 6, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh

for the record, if we can coax the Rangers to give us Profar straight up or Hanrahan we have to pull the trigger. If they will do it for Maholm (not a chance in hell) NH should immediately be fired if he passes.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 7, 2011 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions

I want to disagree

A Low-A shortstop is too big of a risk for Joel Hanrahan. Can’t afford to let this one blow up in their face.

On the other hand, it could really blow up in the Rangers’ face. I’d lose sleep over this decision.

by Woo! on Jul 7, 2011 7:32 AM EDT up reply actions

I wouldn't

Profars upside is immense and at the premium position. Would you trade hanny for machado, cause I don’t see them as being significantly different. (profar and machado)

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 7, 2011 8:34 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Wouldn't

lose sleep..

I might actually like Profar more. As an year old playing full season ball he’s put a .390 wOBA (better than Machado) with 40 walks to 35 strikeouts in 250 AB’s. That’s absurdly good plate considering his experience and origin (Latin America). A 18 year old putting up that wOBA with similar great plate discipline in Low A ball would be a top 50 prospect if he played first base (see: Singleton, Johnathon). The kicker is he plays plus defense at SS with no risk of moving elsewhere.

Using OPS to break down his production further (great article here about OPS versus wOBA and their various uses – the jist is wOBA is descriptive as far as offensive “value” or “worth” but the components of OPS describe strengths and weaknesses of a players game) it’s even clearer he has no weakness. His isolated patience (OBP minus Average) is over .100 (.113 right now in fact). His isolated power is .220, which is even more insane when you consider his low-ish average of .272 (Isolated power is “boosted” just like slugging by average). He’s hit 8 HR’s, so it’s not just gap power either. Even further, considering he has above-average speed, a .287 BABIP seems unlucky to me and his 19 doubles and 6 triples suggest enough line drives that it’s not properly low due to batted ball type.

Simply put, the dude is a stud, and a stud with not a single discernable hole in his game. His glove is fine, he hits for (decent atm) average, he hits for power, and he walks more than he strikes out.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 7, 2011 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions

tough decision on him

for the Rangers. Andrus isn’t chopped liver either, but Profar certainly looks like he has more of potential to be a gamebreaker. Kind of a nice problem to have for the Rangers in regards to their future SS. It also makes it increasingly unlikely that he will get dealt if he continues to put up these kind of numbers because he would bring back a king’s ransom. If they were to trade him, he’d probably cost a big-time young starter who was under team control for several more years (i.e. Tommy Hanson) to pry him away. Kind of looks like, other than McC, the Bucs don’t have the pieces to make that happen.

by NastyNate82 on Jul 7, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Ya

I feel like, if it was ever an actual possiblity, we missed the boat on not moving Hanny for him.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 7, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Dunno if you follow Twitter

But Tim Williams has a value system he follows based off of WAR, and he said today that the Rangers top four prospects (Perez and Profar have to be 1-2) wouldn’t be enough to get the deal done from a numbers standpoint, and that’s without adding in the additional price of acquiring a guy that fans would revolt against losing.

by Woo! on Jul 7, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Lincoln, Presley, D'Arnaud for Drew

Now this is a realistic fair trade (compared to many of the more ridiculous one-sided trades suggested). But doubt the dbacks would go for this deal in-season, since they are still in the race. Although they do have Bloomquist to backfill for Drew and need pitching, too much risk in unproven prospects, It would probably take Maholm, Resop or Veras, and D’Arnaud to get Drew. Also, when you look at other dback’s HR’s, it makes you wonder about Drew’s power. This might be a good deal to look at off-season. They are not going to trade Goldschmidt, btw.

by Central*Scrutinizer on Jul 6, 2011 11:40 PM EDT reply actions

"They are not going to trade Goldschmidt, btw."

This

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 7, 2011 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions

Only one I'd take is the Stephen Drew trade, good all round player, and we would hold him for the prime of his career.

by dan.nq on Jul 6, 2011 11:41 PM EDT reply actions

Atlanta deal

Two top of the rotation starters, a projectable SS/3B and a CF. We then have the trickle down effect by adding the two starters, because we now could possibly go ahead and move a top pitching prospect to get another top of the line bat.

We have to unify and watch our flag ascend!

by C Shint on Jul 7, 2011 10:15 AM EDT reply actions

This just makes me wish we had traded for JJ Hardy this offseason

His price has gone way up from what the Orioles spent on him.

by CW on Jul 7, 2011 11:08 AM EDT reply actions

but would Hardy have put up similar numbers as a Pirate?

by white angus on Jul 7, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions

yeah

we cant get hardy now, and we shoulda gotten him in the offseason… dangit.. big oppo missed there.

by BurgherKing on Jul 7, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Should have gotten Berkman for 1st… shucks.

by Cheap Beer on Jul 7, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think many people here talked about Berkman

But a lot of people were very interested in Hardy, especially after the Twins got a pittance for him.

by CW on Jul 7, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Much of Hardy's offensive value...

is tied to being a RH flyball (when he’s going good) pull hitter with borderline HR power. Target Field hurt him a little (nagging injuries hurt him more). PNC would seriously hurt his numbers. I love me some JJ Hardy, but PNC is probably the worst place for him. Given that, the proposed pieces are probably an overpay for a rental on him, although if he’s type A that’d make it easier to swallow.

I like the “theoretical Barton” (great glove, OBP-guy, LHB in PNC) over Sanchez, but he’s been so bad this year you wonder if something’s seriously wrong that won’t just bounce back. Sanchez would be a great get if the cost was reasonable.

I actually might take either of the Crazy deals. While Cutch is clearly a fantastic player, the thing that makes them do-able is the play/development of Presley, Marte and Gorkys this season.

If you can get “hey, he doesn’t suck” production out of his replacement(s) in CF from Day 1 after the move, you have some PR cover. Not enough cover that any GM could pull the trigger now while the team is in the race, but if the Bucs have a rough two weeks (no jinx no jinx no jinx) then those offers contain a crapload of upside. Profer makes me salivate.

But it depends on your faith in one of those guys being able to step in and provide a line that looks decent to the masses. Marte’s K rate is completely acceptable this year and his bat has begun to show pop. Gorkys’s defense is supposedly insane and, y’know, runs are runs are runs (or: webgems are webgems are webgems to the yinzers), not withstanding the absence of power. Presley is your stopgap and I believe he’s a totally decent MLB OFer right now. The question is whether between the three of them they could keep the grumbling to an acceptable level over the next several seasons of Cutch being an all-star elsewhere. Certainly both trades line things up more ideally for the arrival and club control of Taillon, Cole, etc.

by tobynotjason on Jul 7, 2011 5:39 PM EDT reply actions