Alvarez Optioned to Indy
by Thunder on Jul 9, 2011 2:35 PM EDT
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PrintNumerous tweets from several sources have indicated that Pedro Alvarez has been activated from the disabled list and optioned to Indianapolis.
This would indicate that Pirates management has determined that Pedro is not ready to contribute at the major league level. At least not at the present time.
Neal Huntington was quoted as saying, "Pedro remains a big part of our future, but we believe this move is the best way to get him back on track."
After the euphoria of last night's win, this may have been viewed as the correct time to send Pedro to Indy with a minimum of fan backlash.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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ARam has a $2 million buyout...
So if the idea is to just have a rental, then it’s a pretty expensive one. It would be Nutting putting his money where his mouth is.
I really don’t want Reynolds. His defense is awful.
It doesn’t cost a thing to believe and the payoff on a winner is huge!
We're not
getting ARam.
Not a chance.
Thank Jobu.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 9, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
The increased attendance over the last month or so...
would probably cover ARam’s buyout just fine.
i dont know about this
aram has always been a streaky hitter
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 9, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
He isn't eligible,
you can’t go pro, and then play in college. Surprised you didn’t know that. :)
by H2O on Jul 9, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
are there really "rumblings"...
… or was there just a random tweet or two?
by Captain Easychord on Jul 9, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Dejan_Kovacevic
Again, all this could be simple matter of #Pirates wanting to buy Alvarez an extra week or two in minors. He had 2 hits, 3 RBIs Friday.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
That's a reasonable possibility...
if the Pirates figured he wouldn’t be ready this weekend. With the All Star Break almost upon us, he’d only have a few games to be ready. He won’t lose any service time unless he’s down until August 1st. The Pirates picked the right day to send him down, with last night’s win distracting us.
I dont get why Dejan
would jump to the conclusion we’re in the market for a 3B. He was struggling at the majors when healthy. Why rush him back with a huge jump from where he was without at least getting him some reps at something resembling major league pitching?
I’m not going to question the wisdom of sending Alvarez to Indy. If they determined he was not ready to provide a significant contribution to the team, it’s better that he gets his feet back on the ground at Indy, then come back. I can’t imagine he’d stay there too long if he starts producing. I wouldn’t let one game (2-4 with 2 2B, 2 K last night) sway me.
wow
i m shocked… and i seriously seriously question the wisdom of this move. It was Pedro’s last option, so he better be able to stay up for good after this. I really expected they’d bring him up, take the lumps, and if he didnt improve, put him in Indy to start next season, when there would be the option of giving him a full year to prepare at that level.
I m also curious what this does to his service time if he’s not up this year?
i think this kinda proves that the pirates are "all in" on 2011.
now i dont expect maholm/hanrahan and the others to be dealt, unless we fall completely apart
I agree
This is the best move to make if you are not willing to give Pedro a chance to take several weeks to get his swing. I guess they figure that next year they are not going to have the roster issues they have right now. The team is winning and chances are probably 50/50 that having Pedro improves the team right now or hurts it.
oof
i hope it works out… this is (in the context of the franchise’s development) the highest risk move yet.
How so?
I don’t get how keeping him at Indy a little while longer is “high risk”. He was struggling big time, got hurt and is still struggling on his minor league rehab stint.
What are we risking by keeping him at AAA until he starts hitting again?
well, despite Pedro's troubles, he still will put up better numbers than our other alternatives in house
i think thats what he means.
Well, he hasn’t put up better numbers so far. Pearce, Harrison, Wood and d’Arnaud have taken time at third in his absence and all have put up a better avg and OPS. Given that I think it’s actually one of the lower risk moves to keep him in AAA until he actually proves his approach and swing are coming together.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
cmon, pearce started 6 games at 3B...
anyway, alvarez bottoming out still MIGHT be better than those 4 guys…. maybe
Does how many games he played at third matter though? Yes, overall sample size is small for all of them, (although Wood now has more PAs than Alvarez this year) but my point remains that every other option we’ve used at third this season has outpaced how Alvarez started the season.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
The only risk is that they can't option him next year.
Really, this is the best time for him to get his development in, instead of waiting for next year.
I was very skeptical of bringing him up last year when they did. If only he did not have a MLB contract, I think they would have kept him down until he proved he was ready.
I was very skeptical of bringing him up last year when they did
Me too — a more measured development curve would have suited me just fine. Overall, I still think this guy could be a bust just as easily as he could be quite good. And I remain genuinely clueless as to which it will be.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
I'll bet you are.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 9, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
both of the above
I also think there’s some chance that Pedro may need more than the 2 months left in Indy’s season. If he doesnt put it together in that time, he’ll need to take his lumps in Pitt after this.
Yes, it's his last option...
…but when he comes up, he’s up. He’s not going back down, forever, most likely.
This is, probably, just to give Pedro some extra work during a high time. The Pirates certainly could use a hitting Alvarez, but they’re winning right now. Makes sense to get him some seasoning and work, especially when a call-up to the bigs at this point would give him 1 game, maybe, and then the break.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
ARAM would be an awsome pickup
Credible HR threat who is rh and proven that he can do it in PNC
Pressure off Pedro
One of them transitions to third
I like it – would like to here what the cubs would like in return
we have a Jose Hernandez in the system already. we just gotta find a Bobby Hill...
that aughta do it
Somebody
Find Kenny Lofton! Let’s undo this thing! Reverse the curse!
And if Kenny Lofton isn’t available, we’ll take Kenny Loggins. This team needs a catchy theme song.
by Aphthakid on Jul 9, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
no
we dont need a bad 80’s theme song…really…we dont…
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 9, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Reached for comment, Pedro says:
I’m alright. Nobody worry ’bout me…
could it be that
fixing to deal pedro? moves like this always leave me wondering, especially when all appearances are that he seems to have righted his ship with his hitting. but it could be like a previous poster mentioned that it could give him a few more games to get back in the groove then a call up immediately after the break
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
no i didnt say they were dealing him ffs
i asked if its a possibility..thus the question mark at the end of the first sentence
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 9, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
i just read that LARS was held out of tonights lineup in Pawtucket.................. ???
eh, just fukin around. makin shit up.
Yes, possible. In the sense that it’s also possible a plane might land on my house as I’m typing this…
Or Candle Jack might show up and drag me aw
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Jul 9, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Makes Alvarez work
don’t think for one minute this is anything but trying to motivate someone to try harder and love his craft.
true
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 9, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
All credible reports suggest Alvarez is a hard worker
Have your head otherwise?
s.zielinski
Yeah, that drives me a little nuts.
Every credible source definitely says he works his butt off. Just cause he’s struggling doesn’t mean he’s not trying. I think he was brought up too soon last year. I don’t think any of his problems have to do with effort.
Likewise. I see this Pedro is lazy meme pop occasionally in comment threads. One guy could just tell he wasn’t a hard worker by looking at him.
Pedro
is not lazy. He’s not a very good baseball player. Period.
And your evidence to back this up
is………?
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 9, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Makes him look 1000% like more of a ballplayer.
He’ll never be successful until he gets a damn hat that fits.
Angus
that has nothing to do with my question to him.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 9, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Point of order
We ALL looked thinner in college – let this be a warning to the young ’uns still there.
What does that mean?!
yeah, like pedro is in his mid 30s now...
he was in college just 3 years ago… lolol…
for the record, i said all along the weight gain rumor was total bullshit.
this stuff is garbage
Alvarez is a hard worker and for those asking for evidence that he isn’t…whats your evidence that he is lazy? Because he looks bigger than he did 3 years ago
and Angus stop with the hat over the ears crap…its annoying and dumb
Technically he doesn’t use an option unless he’s down for 20 days. You can call him up 19 days from now and he’d still have an option left.
by ElDuce on Jul 9, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
not exactly
A player uses an option for every year he is on the 40 man roster…thats the easiest way to explain it. with the exception of him being injured occasionally they will be granted an additional year.
Reason being is that all 40 guys on the roster are consider active in spring training and 15 need to be optioned to the minors.
As far as service time, that plays into when a player gets called up. but has nothing to do with this season
Huh?
ElDuce has it right. Players only burn an option year if they send at least 20 days in the minors while on the 40 man roster.
by MarkInDallas on Jul 10, 2011 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions
By the way, IF we are pursuing a third baseman (which I don't think for a second we are)
But just IF…I want Reynolds, not Ramirez.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
youre looking and drooling at Reynolds 20 HRs...
and not seeing the incredibly bad defense this season, his usual enormous K numbers, and the fact that the Dbacks prefered to have Melvin fricken Mora as their third sacker.
by the way, Dbacks are better now and the Orioles are still in last.
just an observation
That's a little disingenuous.
The D’Backs are not better because they have Melvin Mora playing third. Especially since they cut him a couple of weeks ago.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
that actually makes it worse
they would prefer to have NO ONE playing 3B over Reynolds…
hahahahahahahahahhaahah
Yes, he sucks at defense...
But all our third baseman already suck at defense, and the dude can mash.
Plus, his K rate is at a career low, and his BB rate is at a career high.
It’s not happening, though, so it doesn’t matter.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
I don't really care about Ks as long as you're walking and hitting HRs
Yes, he’s bad at D. So are Pedro and Harrison. The guy has a .266 ISO (serious power) and a .366 wOBA.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
Well sure...
…I’m not claiming to guarantee anything. Just that even with his terrible defense, Reynolds has been (and still is) a valuable player.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
yeah, to your fantasy baseball team
not in reality though.
no offense, ctapps. i just think hes a one trick pony
He's been worth 9.8 WAR over 2600 PAs
that’s not chopped liver. I totally get that he sucks at defense and strikes out a lot. BUT, the skills he DOES have (hitting a lot of homeruns and walking a lot) add value to a real, live baseball team.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
hey, if the pirates trade with the o's, i'll ROOT for him...
speaking of 3Bmen, since Pedro is sent down, if the pirates do trade for a third sacker, whom besides Reynolds would be a good fit?
Well...I don't think they'll trade for one...
…but really, they’re aren’t too many guys…Reynolds and Ramirez are probably the only two with real offense who would be on the block. You could go after a Callaspo (Angels) or maybe Chase Headly (Padres), but they do everything kind of okay, and nothing great. Not sure they would be much of an upgrade for having to give someone up.
Third base is really awful this year.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
Hmmm...don't know..
But I’d have to think that the Yanks, Rangers, Mets, and BoSox with A-Rod, Beltre, Wright, and Youkilis would be the only teams with anyone actually not playing who deserves it…Atlanta might have someone, but Chipper’ll be gone soon.
I really don’t know, but those would be the teams to look at I guess. Even still, it’d be a guy in the minors, and Pedro’s upside would probably still be better than Mystery-Blocked-Third-Baseman, IMO.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
BTW...watching the Braves game
Julio Lugo is playing third with Chipper ailing a bit…so it doesn’t look like Chipper’s blocking anyone
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
Chipper is on the DL with a torn meniscus now
they say he still wants to go to his undeserved allstar game appearance
The way it sounded earlier...
They probably scope his knee today or tomorrow, then he travels to Arizona for the game, but will not play.
With Jones out, and Polanco possibly out, that would probably end up with ARam and Panda at 3B for the NL.
Because clearly...
The problem with this team is that they don’t strike out nearly enough.
Oh man, you guys....UNLESSSSS
Pedro’s taking a couple of weeks at Indy to learn FIRST BASE!!
Then we trade for a third baseman, and cut Lyle!!!
That’s how you start a rumor, fellas.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
Step 2...
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 9, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I see what you did there...
.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 9, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Man...a Futurama reference...excellent
It doesn’t cost a thing to believe and the payoff on a winner is huge!
I think that only works if Doumit moves to third so that Walker can get back behind the plate.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
Why is everyone down on Mark Reynolds??
Yes his AVG sucks. BUT his OBP is only slightly below avg, and his OPS this year is 853 with 20 HRs in the first half. He’s hitting .227
His D has actually been the biggest issue. I would be totally fine with bringing him in and moving him to 1B and picking up his option for next year. Oh no a guy with 40HRs and a 350 OBP would just RUIN our lineup wouldnt it? Oh wait it wouldnt. Check this out
Tabata LF
Presley RF
McCtuchen CF
Reynolds 1B
Pedro 3B
Walker 2B
D’Arnaud SS
Snyder/ Domit/ Catcher X/ Sanchez C
Pitcher
Daddy Like
Reynolds Profile. 2010 was a down year
2011 is shaping up to be a repeat of 2009, which was earned him the contract to begin with.
because it sounds like youre trying to win your fantasy league... thats what i'm seeing, anyway
we need a guy who can actually hit the ball on occasion, not a guy who hits a homer a week.
you see those purdy HR numbers, and you get all giddy; smitten with those curvy digits
then BAM!!!! the wheel falls off the fukin’ wagon, and you cant get the buggy out the freakin’ mud…
ummmm, i forgot what i was arguing about
He's on my fantasy team, which is how I know how well he's been playing
He’s also on base to draw 100 walks. basically a poor man’s dunn with better athleticism, which makes me think he could add D value at 1B next year
Poor man's Dunn?
Bad example, considering Dunn is a HUGE failure, ey?
Besides, we have the 7th most K’s on offense, why add to that?
by H2O on Jul 9, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
thats my whole point
get a guy who can put the bat on the ball, not just a guy who can hit a few dingers more than average… yes, reynolds has power, and arguably the biggest hole in a RH batters swing in the league
oh cmon... no one is suggesting a slap hitter/utility guy in this discussion
let me put it this way: if fantasy baseball teams counted K’s and defense, Reynolds wouldnt even be drafted.
Well he's playing there now (and outperforming Pedro)
as far as getting on base, Reynolds OBP is 40 points higher and I wont involve Darnaud and Wood because you know what their #’s are like. Is he ideal no? Is he a huge upgrade over what we have…yes
no, you are settling. you are not making the team better.
you are making a desperate move based simply on HR numbers
Not to mention,
he’s comparing Reynolds’ “comeback season” (repeat of 2009, which earned contract) to Alvarez’s poor season. And the OBP is ONLY 40 points higher.
GTrain, remember when Adam LaRoche killed rallies with GIDPs and Ks? Reynolds is worse.
thanks for the backup, aquaman
sometimes people really get enamoured with the HRs, which i understand because we really dont have anyone slugging any right now.
but we also dont have a true HITTER in our lineup.
No I'm not. I was comparing his OBP to Harrison
And as for Pedro’s “poor” season…he still hasn’t had a full one so I assume you mean his terrible first half of this year as opposed to the second half of last year
Pedro’s OBP was 30 points lower last year, and 70 points lower
Im not saying he’s a great option, or that he’d be ideal, but I cant see how anyone can claim he would hurt the offense on the basis that he K’s a lot, when he gets on base more than any of our current 3B or 1B…and very often gets extra bases, or hits the ball out of the park when he does.
OK
Hopefully, the plan is to let Pedro have some time at AAA to get some things ironed out. Let’s face it, he wasn’t exactly tearing it up earlier this year and he was somewhat rushed up to the majors. I haven’t seen him play, and it’s a small sample size, but it doesn’t look like he’s found his power stroke yet. He’s only slugging .386 during his rehab stint. The team really doesn’t need him right now, so they’ve got the luxury of getting him straightened out before he returns.
So, overall, this is kind of a good thing. They don’t have any reason to rush him back. Let’s just keep our fingers crossed that they can put him back in the right track.
A bit surprising
I was thinking this might happen when he K’d twice last night but after the doubles I assumed it wouldn’t. Seems to me like this was planned prior to last night. Hopefully it’s just until September and he can get his bat together during the interim.
Yinzers uber alles
What if they brought up Hague as a 3B?
He did play it for a while early in his career, could be a way to get him up here to see what we have pre-trade deadline.
Personally I don’t hate the Reynolds/Aram/other 3B idea if one of them shifts to first when Pedro is ready to come back.
Twitter: @Filar
Bad idea
since they’re trying to make a 1B out of him.
IMO.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 9, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I totally agree...
I just think the front office has to have something cooked up. Granted if Pedro is only in AAA for say two more weeks than no big deal, but if they are serious about a run and think Pedro cannot factor in it, than it is safe to say Harrison/Wood/Chase cannot factor long-term either.
Right?
Twitter: @Filar
I would guess they are hoping Alvarez is going to come back sometime.
but it’s going to be up to him to show he’s ready to contribute in MLB and work on his K rate down there.
Chase d’Arnaud’s long term future is either short or second base, and neither Harrison nor Wood is likely to be a long term answer at 3B. But if Pedro doesn’t get going this year, we could end up cobbling things together between all those guys and Pearce when he gets back.
im pretty sure Pearce will be backing up both 3b and 1b, as long as alvarez is in the show
if pedro is still in AAA, pearce might see alot of time at 3B
One thing the move does mean...
barring an injury (as if we don’t have enough of them already), Pedro won’t be in Pittsburgh before July 20th, no matter how well he hits in Indy.
http://www.ovathletics.com/home/alvarez-recalled-from-dl-optioned-to-triple-a/5799
Hurdle’s words are much more encouraging I believe. They invested a large sum of money into Pedro and they want him to succeed more than anyone. So here’s a list of things you need to do in order to come back up w/ the big club and hopefully be a part of something special.
Here’s hoping that works
Twitter: @Filar
Scholarship revoked?
Don’t discount the message this sends to the guys who have been getting the job done during Pedro’s absence.
If he spends more than 20 days more in AAA he loses his last option
I don’t think 20 days is enough to learn first base, but who knows…
It doesn’t cost a thing to believe and the payoff on a winner is huge!
Ah...you are right. From the CBA...
If a Player is optionally assigned for a total of less than 20 days in one
championship season, such optional assignment(s) shall not count as
an optional assignment in connection with the limitation upon optional
assignments provided for in Major League Rule 11©. (See Article
XXI.)
Good to know. This absolutely changes things. It’s certainly the right move.
CBA expires after the season.
So options might not matter after that, who knows. Also, Pedro will have soooooo much time to get fat. jk
by H2O on Jul 9, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Pearce started rehab yesterday (Sun 7-10) at Bradenton
started at 3b, 0-2 with a walk
by Brian Cartwright on Jul 11, 2011 6:50 AM EDT reply actions
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