Pirates Lose To Reds; Doubleheader Tomorrow Could Be A Problem
by Charlie Wilmoth on Aug 21, 2011 7:04 PM EDT
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PrintThis game wasn't a worst-case scenario for the Pirates as they head into their doubleheader tomorrow, but it wasn't very good, either. The Bucs jumped out to an early lead in the first on Andrew McCutchen's two-run homer, but James McDonald, as he so often does, imploded in the middle-late innings, allowing a double and a walk in the sixth, and then a three-run jack to Joey Votto. I was listening to the game on the radio and was wondering if Clint Hurdle should have taken McDonald out, since he'd thrown a ton of pitches in the first inning in particular. But I can't blame Hurdle for feeling like he ought to get as much as possible out of McDonald, given that the Pirates have to pitch 18 innings tomorrow, and the Bucs will be using spot starters in two of their next three games.
Anyway, Jose Tabata led off the bottom of the inning with a triple, and then Garrett Jones homered on a 1-2 Mike Leake pitch way out of the strike zone, so the Pirates retook the lead. But then the Pirates had to use Jason Grilli and Jose Veras en route to Joel Hanrahan. Unfortunately, it sounded like the suddenly-mortal Hanrahan was really struggling to throw strikes, and he allowed one walk/single after another until the Reds had the lead back. Dan McCutchen had to come on and finish out the inning, and then the Pirates couldn't score to tie the game in the bottom of the ninth after Josh Harrison was caught stealing with no outs. (Clint Hurdle was thrown out arguing the call.)
So, the Bucs didn't get the win, and didn't preserve their bullpen. Hanrahan has pitched three straight days and hasn't been good recently; he almost certainly shouldn't pitch tomorrow. Jose Veras has pitched three straight days as well. Good luck to the Bucs getting through two games tomorrow.
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It would probably be wise to bring somebody up from Indy to eat innings. AKA hello again Moskos.
Also, apparently Pedro hit a 405-foot single today. He hit the ball, then ‘admired’ the hit: started running after realizing it wasn’t gone. Pete’s starting to lose his appeal and fast.
Thank you Ned Colletti.
now i generally respect your opinions rybread
but c’mon man does pete’s 200’ single have anything to do with events during todays game? i was hoping his send down would usher in an era of no pete bashing for atleast two weeks…..
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Aug 21, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
er 400'
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Aug 21, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I never rip on Pedro. But Pedro needs his lashings when he does shit like that.
Thank you Ned Colletti.
what is this the inquisition?
please sir may i have another
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Aug 21, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
All is well! Remain calm!
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Aug 21, 2011 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
the REALLY crapy thing about today
without that rather questionable call at second on harrisons steal, bucs tie the game….that sucks bad. I think there are some genuine concerns with hammer, he threw only one offspeed pitch, a slider that he left up in the zone that got whacked pertty good. he threw more balls then strikes, and those two things combine for a really bad outing. I dunno maybe he’s just tired and since hurdle doesnt like pitching guys after they have had three consecutive days worth of work its a safe bet that he wont see action tomorrow. his location which was pinpoint before the break has not even been close to that since.
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Aug 21, 2011 7:29 PM EDT reply actions
bucs got screwed on the call
and your saying it was a questionable decision to send him? if it works its a good decision if it doesn’t its a bad one……..
but in fairness i thought it was questionable too until i saw the play, and hurdle should have gone out there and ripped the 2nd base ump on that call.
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Aug 21, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
If it doesn’t work it’s a bad decision. If it works it’s a bad decision that worked out well. There’s no way you want to give away outs in that situation.
by thecheeseisblue on Aug 21, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
no, the outcome doesnt decide the quality of the decision
as tcib pointed out… essentially, keep playing the percentages, and if you’re making the right decision much more often than not, you’ll win much more than you lose.
percentages?
over the past three season harrison has had a 77% success rate at steals and that was the first time he got caught this year at any level. yes almost all of those stats came in the minors. he picked the right pitch to go on, and got screwed.
i find it hard to believe that people would be saying it would have been a bad idea to send him if the next batter had hit into a dp rather then a double, which coincidentally is far less likely to happen.
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Aug 21, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Steals are a bad idea in most situations in general.
by thecheeseisblue on Aug 22, 2011 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions
fair enough
maybe i m wrong, but having looked at Harrison in his ML time, my take is that he’s not a base stealer. If he picks the right pitches, he could have some success stealing, I guess, but imo, its not very likely.
over the past three season harrison has had a 77% success rate at steals
And over the last 2, AA and AAA, he’s stolen at a 72% clip, which is the low end of what you need to be successful.
that was the first time he got caught this year at any level
No, he’s been caught 5 times in Indy.
i find it hard to believe that people would be saying it would have been a bad idea to send him if the next batter had hit into a dp rather then a double
You keep making the mistake of assuming that I decide based on the outcome rather than the process, which is simply not true. Maybe you’re talking of more casual fans, and it’s probably true that a lot of people decide based on the outcome. Still doesn’t make it right, and I don’t see how you can make the case that there aren’t quite a few people on this board who grade the process rather than the result. It’s just wrong.
which coincidentally is far less likely to happen.
Which is less likely? The DP or the double? If you said DP to that, you’re right.
how many times has Marte been caught stealing?
just thought i would chime in and mention something that doesnt have a bearing at all on this conversation
Correction for Starling:
21 /12
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Aug 22, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I really hope that Hanrahan’s recent struggles are just a regression to the mean(which, for a pitcher as good as he is, remains excellent) after 4+ months of pure awesomeness and not some type of injury that would cause us to have to sideline him the rest of the season like we did Meek last year. Now that we’re officially better than last year I’d like to get to at least 75 wins and having Hanrahan around would be a huge help to achieve that.
How many WAR (wins above Russell) do you think Hurdle’s fieriness is worth?
Jason
The Hanging Curve
other then
a steadily declining command of his pitches and the three run shot to votto? sorry that was me being a douchebag… i’ve been arguing tha gary bettman has been a failure(see mediocre) commissioner for the last twenty years…..
i agree and disagree to a point we could have trotted him back out there for another inning and hopped he could make it through, keeping him on a short leash. while pulling him didnt really hvae an impact on THIS game it is likely that it will effect the next. but grilli came in and pitched well as did veras (!). but i think maybe let grilli go another inning rather then pull him. you could make an argument there as well.
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Aug 21, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
He’d thrown about 80-85 after putting the first two men on in the sixth, hadn’t he?
by Charlie Wilmoth on Aug 21, 2011 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
thats what i thought too
but that being said the one game he made it through6 he was near the century mark i think
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Aug 21, 2011 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Multiple roster moves likely coming tomorrow...
and at least one of them likely to include position players. We know Ohlendorf is coming Tuesday, with that roster move likely to be Lincoln going back to Indy after pitching tomorrow. I’d expect that someone will come up from Indy to help with the bullpen. Could be Morris, Moskos or Wilson. That person would likely replace a position player, say, maybe Pearce or one of the other 8,000 OF. After the DH, the extra pitcher goes back to Indy and someone comes up. Presley, possibly?
Closer tomorrow…Resop or Watson.
I wonder if Heilman might come up at some point soon.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Aug 21, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m assuming that Heilman was not put on the 40 man roster…so I’d doubt they’d bring him up that quick. He’s pitched twice in 2 weeks at AAA.
He’s on a minor-league deal. Yeah, you might be right.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Aug 21, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Closer tomorrow…Resop or Watson.
good lord i hope niether. im not completely sold on TW yet. if i had my choice it would either be no relation or a blow out win for us in both games
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Aug 21, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
you could throw veras out there
but he had two decent outings in a row…he’s due for a big inning against if he’s even available
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Aug 21, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
only if
we up by say….20
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Aug 21, 2011 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Aug 21, 2011 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Just say NO.
to Joe.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Aug 21, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
only if it was a one out save
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
CM PUNK IS MY HERO
Canal Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Aug 22, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
only if it was a one out save up by 20
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Aug 22, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
There is no ‘due’ in baseball. If that were the case, McCutchen is even more due
Thank you Ned Colletti.
There is only "due" or "due not."
There is no “try.”
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Aug 21, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The tired pitchers could start a serious snowball situation.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
by Kosstic518 on Aug 21, 2011 8:41 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
How many....
runs will the Brew Crew put up over this 4 game set? Considering they are facing Ross, Lincoln and Correia (who is terrible at PNC) not to mention a pen that is getting worn out this could get ugly. It is certainly looking like of those series when we get outscored 40-45 runs to 5 runs. We have done nothing against their pitching so far this season. We are catching a small break I guess not having to face Wolf and Gallardo. That seems to be the only good news I can think of for this series.
I think the good news for this series is that we will see Ohlendorf and Lincoln in action. Even if they get roughed up, at least we’ll learn something about them. As of right now, I don’t know what the Pirates have in either guy.
The Pirates are so far back that I’m thinking more about 2012 than 2011.
That was an okay trip.
I didn’t bother waiting for the game to finish. As soon as the Reds took the lead in the 9th, I left. The phantom rain delay before the game was pretty dumb.
Yesterday was pretty good. Friday night, not fun at all. Thursday night a lot of pointless fun as it was just a preseason game. I guess it was pretty average.
But yeah, there has to be something seriously wrong with Hanrahan.
So onto my love rocket, climb, Inside tank of fuel is not fuel, but love.
really?
But yeah, there has to be something seriously wrong with Hanrahan
Because he’s had a week with a few blown saves, there has to be something seriously wrong with him. Really.
Or he’s a dude having an awesome year who just happens to be having a down week or two.
C’mon, guy doesn’t blow ANY saves from April through June and now we’re gonna give him shit cause he’s blown a few in the past week? Unreasonable.
It doesn't sound like he's giving Hanrahan shit to me...
He is making an observation -right or wrong – without stooping to any of the “garbage” comments that have been so prevalent lately.
My $0.02
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Aug 21, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok....
I was just really frustrated. I drove from Iowa to Pittsburgh to see them play this weekend and to see Harahan basically hand the Reds to games after he had been so effective all year just made me angry.
Maybe I should have said “I think there could be something wrong with Hanrahan.”
So onto my love rocket, climb, Inside tank of fuel is not fuel, but love.
by IAPiratesFan on Aug 22, 2011 6:32 AM EDT up reply actions
that's fair, man
I didn’t mean to jump on you or anything. I just think that sometimes we hold our best players to unreasonable standards. I’m as guilty of it as anyone. With most players we understand that they’re going to go through good and bad stretches and even though that’s really frustrating, we accept it. But it just seemed a little premature to declare something “seriously wrong” after a little bad stretch — especially after he performed at a basically flawless level for three months.
O/T
Anyone have idea who is pitching for WV this Friday? I’m finally gonna make the hour drive up there to see them. Only took the entire summer..
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto
by blackjackfishtaco on Aug 22, 2011 10:16 AM EDT reply actions
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