Ryan Doumit Returns, Pirates Option Eric Fryer

by Charlie Wilmoth on Aug 3, 2011 2:40 PM EDT

Ryan Doumit is back, which will hopefully give the offense a bit of a jolt. The Bucs have shipped Eric Fryer back to Indianapolis. The Bucs cleared the roster space on the 40-man when they designated Lyle Overbay for assignment a couple days ago.

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I'd like to see Doumit bat third. Let Walker directly protect Cutch.

McCutchen, Walker, Doumit, Lee, Jones, Alvarez, Ludwick, Cedeno.

That doesn’t look so bad. Let’s go; the Cubs and Padres are still terrible, and winning four of the next five would make things rosy again for Pittsburgh baseball. Let’s get it done, Pirates.

No jinx no jinx no jinx.

by Suffering Buc on Aug 3, 2011 2:47 PM EDT reply actions

Not too bad

Though I think any lineup looks great when the fillers aren’t there anymore.

First it was our offense dragging us down, now it’s the pitching (more so than the offense). Need our starters to give us a chance to win.

by dulciusXasperis on Aug 3, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions

This shows how much we need Tabata or Presley to get back

Presley/Tabata
Walker
Cutch
Lee
Ludwick/Jones platoon
Doumit
Alvarez
Cedeno

Can’t have Alvarez ahead of Ludwick, given his K propensities. Doumit and the platoon could be interchanged, and everyone slides up one when McKenry spells Doumit.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Aug 3, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Can only help

Worried about him on defense but honestly, how much worse can he be? (Or have I just forgot how bad he’s been)

Still his bat will be a nice welcome.

by dulciusXasperis on Aug 3, 2011 2:48 PM EDT reply actions

His defense is fine

When he’s not starting every day. 3 rest days a week should do wonders for him, and I can live with that much McKenry.

by JRoth95 on Aug 3, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah McKenry actually wasn't too bad

by dulciusXasperis on Aug 3, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions

0.2 WAR in 37 games

And actually FG doesn’t much like his defense (although that could just be his recent run of PBs); if we think he’s really a bit to the good, he’s probably a solid +1 WAR over a season, which is plenty from a #2 C.

Is JJ’s Pirates career coming to an end? I guess it depends what we do with Doumit’s option(s), but it’s hard to see a need for JJ when we have Sanchez, Fryer, and McKenry, plus another couple guys lower down. I’d sure hate to go into 2012 with Fort and JJ as our catchers, hoping that Sanchez is ready by June.

by JRoth95 on Aug 3, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah kinda forgot about JJ to be honest.

He’s on the DL is he not? At any rate, we certainly need an upgrade at Catcher, with or without Doumit on this team.

by dulciusXasperis on Aug 3, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions

though not a priority

by dulciusXasperis on Aug 3, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd decline Doumit's option

Then offer him arbitration (about $5.5M for next year i think). The truth is that there isn’t much out there in terms of FA catchers this offseason outside of Ramon Hernandez who will be a Type A FA and is NOT worth a 1st round pick. I’m not saying Doumit and McKenry would be the best catching tandem in the league but it’s not awful either. With Fryer and JJ at AAA and Sanchez probably repeating AA and hopefully hitting again, it’s unlikely we’d go through anything as horrible as the Toregas/Brown fiasco.

by KentuckyPirate on Aug 3, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions

very true

Didn’t realize there aren’t many options out there via FA. Can always find someone through trades though but yeah, Doumit isn’t terrible. At least he has one of the better bats as far as catchers go.

Sanchez seems to be progressing a bit slowly though he has had some bad luck with that jaw injury and what not. Hope he stays healthy and gives the organization a reason to promote him aggressively. Still young at 23 but I feel he can’t afford any more setbacks.

by dulciusXasperis on Aug 3, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions

I’d sure hate to go into 2012 with Fort and JJ as our catchers, hoping that Sanchez is ready by June.

God, that’s a horrifying prospect.

by Vlad on Aug 3, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions

While his OBP is much higher I believe Sanchez is currently hitting around 240 with 0 power.

Seems like he’s a little ways off

by GTrain on Aug 3, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Yup. .337 with an OPS in the 600's in AA, gonna be a minute

though as I thought his OBP is about 100 points higher

by GTrain on Aug 3, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions

237 I mean DERP

by GTrain on Aug 3, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Vlad

I remember how much you didn’t like the Sanchez selection. He’s not looking too hot right now, although he did miss a lot of time last year. He’d better show more next year.

BTW, I’ve got to give you credit for being so much against the Overbay signing in the offseason. I thought you went a bit overboard at the time, but you’ve been proven correct.

パトリック

by patthatt on Aug 3, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Really?

I can’t seem to recall Vlad chiming in on the Overbay issue. Seemed a rather mysterious silence.

:-)

by matskralc on Aug 3, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions

ha!

by white angus on Aug 3, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Don't worry.

I’ll probably get something wrong next week to balance things out.

(Regardless of my Cassandra-ing, I really do hope that Sanchez can get things turned around. We need him.)

by Vlad on Aug 3, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Fangraphs admits that they haven’t quite worked out catcher defensive numbers, so I wouldn’t put much stock in them. That also makes WAR for catchers a bit wonky.

by thecheeseisblue on Aug 3, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions

So what's the Over/Under...

…on when Mr. Glass hurts himself again?

On a related topic, how many games per week should Doumit be starting and how many for McKenry?

by Bishop1973 on Aug 3, 2011 2:49 PM EDT reply actions

50/50 seems fair.

by Vlad on Aug 3, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Remember, Doumit was having his most productive year in a while offensively (and by far his best defensive campaign) when Snyder was playing most of the games. Less Doumit means a better Doumit. Agree on 50/50.

No jinx no jinx no jinx.

by Suffering Buc on Aug 3, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, I agree. 50/50 for the first couple of weeks back and maybe 60/40 after that. Doumit should rest all games against lefties at least.

by et_pitt on Aug 3, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions

The good news

Is that we have a natural platoon split between the two: Doumit wOBA .432/.309 and McKenry .219/.299. Obviously, .309>.299, but between McKenry’s superior defense and the need to rest Doumit, it’s pretty straightforward.

As noted by et_pitt and dulcius, you may not end up with a pure 50/50 or platoon split, but it’s a good rule of thumb.

by JRoth95 on Aug 3, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions

That would be my guess...

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on Aug 3, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd just stick with the hot hand at this point.

Whoever’s performing just keep them in there.

by dulciusXasperis on Aug 3, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions

problem is Doumit's going to need some every day at bats to get his timing back...

I’d expect at least 2-3 games in a row right away.

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on Aug 3, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Good call

by JRoth95 on Aug 3, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Every day?

I think not. Regular is what you mean. Through college players do not play every day and get in their timing down.

Viva Clemente!

by Roberto on Aug 3, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions

oh yeah for sure.

He’s clearly the more desirable player over McKenry but I’m just saying after his first couple of weeks back, if he’s just not producing and McKenry is, I’d ride McKenry’s hot streak.

by dulciusXasperis on Aug 3, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions

I like McHenry. I hope the Pirates keep him long term because he may not have the best bat, but he is a pretty good defensive catcher.
Of course with forearms like his I’d like to see him drive the ball more.

by paps35 on Aug 3, 2011 3:09 PM EDT reply actions

Doumit

Is not in the lineup tonight

by 11hoagjo on Aug 3, 2011 3:19 PM EDT reply actions

Via Pirates Twitter

8/3 lineup vs Cubs: McCutchen CF, Jones RF, Walker 2B, Lee 1B, Ludwick LF, Alvarez 3B, Cedeno SS, McKenry C, Morton P

by 11hoagjo on Aug 3, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions

thats fine.

did he catch yesterday or the day before? and hell, a doumit as a ph today is far better then windows,diaz, and the rest of the AAA guys we have had in that role. starting with a line-up like that, doumit of the bench, i highly doubt 5 runs/game is a stretch anymore. but it sure would be nice to have tabs or ap back….or both….

" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009

by oldtimehockey09 on Aug 3, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions

I think he caught both games actually

Use him off the bench tonight and start him tomorrow.

by KentuckyPirate on Aug 3, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Ummmm....

i highly doubt 5 runs/game is a stretch anymore

Here are the 2011 teams averaging 5 runs per game: Boston, New York Yankees, Texas

Sorry, but I don’t really think that the addition of Ryan Doumit is going to propel the Pirates into that stratosphere.

by Bishop1973 on Aug 3, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions

doumit by himself no

doumit,cutch,pedro if he continues to turn it around, ludwick,pena, and a steady cedeno i dont see why not

" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009

by oldtimehockey09 on Aug 3, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions

lolz

doumit,cutch,pedro if he continues to turn it around, ludwick,~~pena,~~

how i got pena i dunno

" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009

by oldtimehockey09 on Aug 3, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions

were better with Lee, Ludwick, Doumit….were not a full run better. Give me Presley back so we can drop Cutch back down in the lineup and I could see us being maybe a .5 run better

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Aug 3, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions

we need to sale the two homer days

last two times out a bucs batter has gotten two hommers…we lost…sale the mutli hr game

" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009

by oldtimehockey09 on Aug 3, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions

who do you put at the three and four holes?

with this line-up there are multiple option b/w cutch, lee,ludwick, walker, and pedro as a dark horse candidate

" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009

by oldtimehockey09 on Aug 3, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions

cutch 3, dlee 4

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Aug 3, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Why activate him if he isn’t going to play?

by Thunder on Aug 3, 2011 3:39 PM EDT reply actions

could use him to pinch hit or be a defensive replacement in say RF tonight? If he just caught the last few days, its most likely he wasn’t going to catch at AAA tonight anyways? So why not bring him up and at least use him off the bench instead of having Fryer who had almost no use at all off the bench

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Aug 3, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Doumit as a defensive replacement?

Let’s hope not.

by maguro on Aug 3, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions

well you know CH likes his double switches, i could see him using Doumit instead of say Pearce late in the game, even if that means switching him into RF…. lets hope not, just throwing guesses out there

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Aug 3, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions

There is no doubt, McHenry is a far better defensive catcher than Doumit. Since Doumit "left’, the number of wild pitches declined dramatically.

Strike outs will decline, since Doumit has more foul tips clang off his mask than end up in his glove.

The injury prone Doumit has never been the big bat he was advertised to be.

Doumit’s so called versatility will no longer get him playing time in right or at first. Doumit is a defensive liability no matter where he plays.

There is little positive in the return of Ryan Doumit..

by Stan Rojek on Aug 3, 2011 3:52 PM EDT reply actions

Little Positive?

Ryan Doumit’s 2011 OPS+: 116
Michael McKenry’s 2011 OPS+: 79

While the defense will decline on days that Doumit is in the lineup, the offense will certainly improve on those days as well.

The injury prone Doumit has never been the big bat he was advertised to be.

For a catcher, he is above-average offensively. Doesn’t have to be a “big bat”, just bigger than what other teams have at a similar position.

by Bishop1973 on Aug 3, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Doumit has made 2 errors, 1 passed ball and 9 wild pitches…not sure how those count against Doumit or how they are calculated but 2 errors and 1 passed ball isn’t bad at all for Doumit. Its the 23% CS that could use some help.

McKenry has made 4 errors, 1 passed ball and 7 wild pitches. All while having a 27% CS rate. He is better yes, but when factoring in offense, Doumit is still the better catcher.

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Aug 3, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions

One thing about the wild pitches

Doumit’s 9 WP are in 206.1 innings caught, while McKenry’s 7 WP are in 323 innings caught.

It’s pretty indisputable that McKenry keeps more balls from going to the backstop, as Doumit averages 1 WP per 23 innings caught while McKenry averages 1 WP every 46 innings caught.

I still think that Doumit’s total package is better than McKenry’s, but probably because I think that this team desperately needs more offense that it does fewer wild pitches. McKenry should still continue to catch on days that McDonald pitches, however.

by Bishop1973 on Aug 3, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions

paints a better perspective, i’m not sure if you can never need too fewer wild pitches. our defense this season has shown that a solid fielding team that makes little mistakes in the field can do wonders for your W/L record.

I prefer the offense though, so its personal opinion i suppose

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Aug 3, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions

There is little positive in the return of Ryan Doumit..

Except for, ya know, being a way better hitter.

by Garrett122 on Aug 3, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh No-mit!

Pirates were winning this year with speed and great defense. They lost last year with Weak defenders Alvarez and D’ohmit. Bad defense was accepted under the idea they might hit a home run at some point. Bucs are repeating the losing strategy from last year, and abandoning this year’s winning formula, too bad.

by BucsFaninCA on Aug 3, 2011 4:22 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

while your point stands, you can convey it a much more untrolling way. I guess some things never change.

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Aug 3, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions

It’s just an opinion, why don’t you give one instead of trolling my comments with your usual hissy fit?

by BucsFaninCA on Aug 3, 2011 4:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

instead of trolling my comments with your usual hissy fit?

i was not aware that i was usually in a hissy fit? just saying dude, Doumit really has been a lot better with the glove this season when he was splitting time, i think we can drop the No’Mit nickname until he reverts to sub par defense again.

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Aug 3, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions

but calling Overbay "overpaid" is acceptable.

im with ya, CShint, the negative nicknames are a cancer. the No-mit stuff is old, but so are the other ones.

by white angus on Aug 3, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions

eh very true, but i think we all knew overbay was a goner. doumit has been one of the longest tenured pirates and at least provides offense despite stretches/seasons of sub par defense. sounds like a double standard but i dont mind having a good laugh when he fails to make a play, but to consistently bash him as BFCA has done is a little over the top. 2 of his 3 fanposts highlight his distaste for Doumit. Its overkill (heh new nickname for overbay lolz) at this point.

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Aug 3, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions

duely noted

i have nothing against the no’mit nickname, if thats how he chooses to post his opinions on the site that is fine. and that is all i will comment further on the subject.

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Aug 3, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions

if he were built like Pedro, we could call him Dough-mitt

by white angus on Aug 3, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions

That, and the fact

that Pedro’s D is not as bad as it’s being portrayed by this poster, either.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Aug 3, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Both Pedro and Doumit give up one run each at least per night

with errors or not making an easy play. Even if Doumit and Pedro each hit one home run every 10 days, it doesn’t begin to make up for what they give up on defense in every game.

by BucsFaninCA on Aug 3, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions

not one run per night

Please, look at some defensive statistics. They all have flaws, but what they can do is estimate about how many additional runs will be scored due to an extra baserunner or error. The worst fielder in the history of the game has not cost his team a run per night.

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Aug 3, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah. That's not gonna

make any difference to that poster.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Aug 4, 2011 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions

Pirates were winning this year with speed and great defense.

Including the part of this year where Doumit and Snyder were splitting time behind the plate.

Or does that not count, for some reason?

by Vlad on Aug 3, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions

heh nope, our season started once Fort became the catcher! cmon everyone knows that!

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Aug 3, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree with you on this!

by BucsFaninCA on Aug 3, 2011 5:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

sigh

by Brakeman8 on Aug 4, 2011 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions

By the way,

let’s give a thumbs up to Eric Fryer. We’re talking about a guy who hasn’t done a lot of C in the minors, and he came up and did well in limited time, IMO. He handled the bat well enough and is obviously a pretty fair athlete. Let’s hope he’s in the mix next year too.

パトリック

by patthatt on Aug 3, 2011 4:23 PM EDT reply actions

i like Fryer

I m hoping he’ll be a legitimate catching option for us in the bigs at some point in 2012. I have no idea why he didnt show at least a little more with the bat, but I’ll chalk it down to inexperience.

by BurgherKing on Aug 3, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Considering he was injured and in A+ ball last year at this time

I thought he did alright. The results weren’t great, but he seemed a lot less overmatched at the plate than Dusty Brown did. That’s my recollection, at least.

by maguro on Aug 3, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions

he was OK, as you say

i still expected him to run into a couple although jumping to ML and playing sporadically probably didnt help him any, either. Yeah, I agree, making a big leap and holding his own was a decent job.

by BurgherKing on Aug 3, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions

He did post a .345 OBP, but all his hits were singles, so only a .269 SLG. He only had 29 PA, so not much to go on in any case. He’s hit really well in the minors this year and last, seems like he could be a valuable back-up in the future.

by et_pitt on Aug 3, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions

an awful swing may be part of it...

is it me, or does Fryer and d’Arnaud both have just really bad mechanics at the dish?

by white angus on Aug 3, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions

did D'Arnaud's swing look bad to you?

He seemed OK to me, but terribly off on pitch recognition.

With Fryer, it almost seemed like he was trying to hit ground balls and bank on BABIP… i ve never seen him before, but his minor league numbers indicate some pop at least.

by BurgherKing on Aug 3, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions