2012 Starting Rotation

by SirGeorge on Aug 6, 2011 6:16 PM EDT

I am not a bandwagon fan I have given up on the Pirates for this season in reaching .500 Nor if they played the last 51 games(exactly like June) to be the modern day "Miracle Mets" and come back and win the division 7 games in 2011.

Four of the five starters have already pitched more innings in 2011 than they did in the entire 2010 season. Maholm is on pace to break his personal best innings pitched in a season.

Factor in your 2012 starting rotation on all possibilities. Examples: picking up Maholm's $9 million option/new three-year deal, $2 million starter Ohlendorf returning, Karstens due for a raise, trading any of them, not exercising arbitration years(I am not sure both are eligible) on McDonald or Morton, promoting Lincoln, Owens, Wilson.

Below is my 2012 starting rotation. Please list your own and give reasons on who it is in or out of your starting rotation.

1. Jeff Karstens(a solid pitcher for years to come not a one year wonder like player hater Zach Duke)

2. Ross Ohlendorf($2 million but is an innings eater compared to the rest of the staff)

3. Kevin Correia(I know he is pitching now like the second coming of the aforementioned Zach Duke)

4. James MacDonald(he averages just five innings per start and must develop a solid second and third pitch)

5. Brad Lincoln(I prefer him over both Rudy Owens and Justin Wilson)

I believe the Pirates(NUTTINGS) will not match Maholm's $9 million option nor a new deal. I also foresee a trade of Charlie Morton, Justin Wilson, or Rudy Owens hoping for a power bat in the outfield or first base.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

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Pirates rotation... Tough one...

1. Morton establish as an ace for next year

2. Maholm finishes strong and proves he needs to stay and is offered 3 years

3. JMac a guy they have complete control over and shows very good stuff

4. Lincoln simply deserves it after a good season and shows promise in September

5. Correia 2 year deal so yeah….

Karstens I feel will be dealt cause some team gives us an offer for him. Ross can’t stay healthy and one or two of the guys at AAA should become a regular in the rotation next year. If Maholm doesn’t get signed Karstens will stay.

by Joey Mooney on Aug 6, 2011 7:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

i think an ace should be able to strikeout twice as many as they walk

but hey, im a dreamer

by white angus on Aug 8, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions

FINALLY!

Someone with good sense. Neal Huntington could use you.

Charlie Morton is ace material.

Jeff Karstens? It’s time to trade him while he has value, because his history suggests that this year is an aberration. Plus he STILL gives up too many home runs.

On the other hand: Ray Searage (Bucs’ pitching coach) is primarily responsible for Charlie Morton achieving his potential. Perhaps he has done the same for Karstens. Either way, though, the Pirates ultimately win if they trade Karstens.

As for Maholm: I for one would not have been too terribly disappointed had Huntington traded him last month, because they were not going to win anything this year – though I understand why Huntington yielded to the fans’ pressure for a winner. (Still, I feel that he should not have gotten away from his plan, and should have been a seller – of sorts – at this years’ deadline as opposed to a buyer.)

Along with Ryan Doumit, Maholm is a member of the losing culture that that Pirates had under Littlefield, et. al. Trade those two while you can, because they have no future here.

by Thomas E on Aug 16, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions

an ACE can get LH hitters out more than 64% of the time

no offense to Morton, but hes no ace.

by white angus on Aug 16, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions

Just curious

What’s your definition of Ace. Paramaters, not just “heart” or “gets it done”

by Wizard of Woz on Aug 16, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions

ACE to me is a dominating pitcher. and not every team has one.

you have your Halladays, Lincecums, Sabathias, Lees, Weavers, Verlanders, Hernandezeseseses……

every team has a #1, but most are #1’s by default.

by white angus on Aug 19, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions

2012 rotation

1. Morton
2. Karstens
3. Maholm
4. Macdonald
5. Lincoln

—Move Ohlendorf to the bullpen. I like the idea of Ohlendorf in the bullpen. Won’t be so injury prone. He was projected as a reliever while in the Yankees system.

—DFA or try and trade Correia this offseason.

by FusilliJerry88 on Aug 6, 2011 8:31 PM EDT reply actions

i think Ohlendorf will be let go this offseason. i dont see the FO going another round of arbitration with him and his injury questions.

by white angus on Aug 19, 2011 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions

Neal Huntington will never give up on Morton

They like the nibbler. plus he’s not even arbitration eligible yet I don’t believe.

The real question is the Maholm option. I’d probably pick it up and see how we do next year.
If they do, the rotation will be the same.

by JCBucs on Aug 6, 2011 9:34 PM EDT reply actions

Neal Huntington will never give up on Morton

thats ridiculous

by white angus on Aug 8, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Morton

What if the return is a major league power OF or 1B?

by SirGeorge on Aug 8, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions

no, im saying NH would trade Morton if it helps the club. im not saying he wont.

JCBucs is still upset that McLouth is gone, thats all.

by white angus on Aug 16, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Karstens
MacDonald
Lincolin
FA
Owens

by Epsy on Aug 6, 2011 10:15 PM EDT reply actions

My rotation

In no order, this is just my five I would want

Morton-Too much promise. In this past week+ of disaster pitching, he has been the only ace performance against the “juggernaut” Cubs offense. His stuff is simply too good. This off season he is going to need to do develop a better strategy against lefties and simply cannot go away from his sinker.

McDonald-All right, gun to my head and you told me I could only pick two pitchers from this years rotation to carry over to next year, it would be Morton and J-Mac. They are both very similar, both sometimes erratic, but with filthy ace potential. J-Mac’s pitches sometimes look like they break 10 feet off the plate before knifing back over for a strike. I think he can develop into something special.

Karstens-He looked awful last night, and I guess the jury is still out on whether or not he regresses, but right now, he looks decent. Has good control, solid command, and is an efficient pitcher. Still, I feel like I would not mind an upgrade over him, he definitely could be the next pitcher to fall into the oblivion.

Maholm-Need a solid lefty, and I think as a back of the rotation guy, he does his job adequately well. Nothing overwhelming, but like Karstens, he can be sneaky efficient and can go 7 innings. Granted, he can also get teed off on, so there is also that to watch out for.

Lincoln-Dude deserve a shot to be a regular in the rotation, lets be honest. He’s a former 1st round pick, if he can pitch well through the rest of the season, have a good Spring Training, then he without a doubt deserves a shot to be in the rotation on a permanent basis.

As for the rest of them I did not include:
Ohlendorf-If he comes back and pitches well, he could very easily replace someone in the five I just listed, as someone mentioned above, he can go deep into ball games and that is an absolutely valuable commodity.

Correia-Ugh. I want nothing to do with him. I know we have him under contract for another year, but we caught our lighting in a bottle, and I think he’s done. I know he was a reliever in San Francisco, maybe keep him around there? I would not be opposed to that.

Owens-God, what a disappointment. I know some of you are listing him here, but the dude has a 5+ ERA in AAA, I definitely do not feel confident in putting him in the starting rotation for our big league team.

WIlson-See Owens.

by Zach Buccos on Aug 6, 2011 11:45 PM EDT reply actions

2012 rotation

1. Morton — if he can bounce back from his rough Jule/July period he will be an ace next year.

2. J-MacK – take away his horrid April he has been doing a formidable job.

3. Ohlendorf — he has to gain value somehow. Hopefully his shoulder will be able to hold up once and for all.

4. Lincoln — it’s time to see whether Lincoln will be able to answer the call. Looking more and more like another 1st round bust.

5. Correia — stuck with him next year. Could end up in middle relief.

Karstens might become trade bait if he can hold it together after that horrible Padres outing.

Maholm and his expensive option will not be accepted. His Pirate days are winding down.

Waiting in the wings

Owens, Wilson. McFEARson, Locke

Morris will be a mainstay in the back end of the bullpen.

by BadAndy on Aug 7, 2011 9:11 AM EDT via mobile reply actions

Maholm, Morton, McDonald, Lincoln, and Correia probably start the year. In spite of being a mediocre pitcher, Correia is probably around fair value in terms of WAR dollars next season, and he likely starts the year in the rotation. He won’t finish it there, I guess.

Karstens is going to get rocked so badly in the last few months that he won’t be a starter, and Ohlendorf probably won’t be with the team next year. He’s not worth what he’s making this year, and his overpayment will be exacerbated with his next arbitration hearing.

Hanrahan, Resop, Veras, Meek, Watson, Karstens, and one of Moskos/Leroux/Morris/Wilson in the bullpen, which should be a good group.

No jinx no jinx no jinx.

by Suffering Buc on Aug 7, 2011 5:25 PM EDT reply actions

For now

1. TBD – I foresee a big trade/FA here
2. Maholm – pick up his option, probably traded in July if anyone in Indy is ready
3. Morton – cheap and pretty productive. should be even better next year.
4. Karstens – He’s earned this so far.
5. Mac

Correia – long relief/injury insurance
Ohlie – dealt on the cheap for a C prospect because Dejan will leak he’s about to be non-tendered
Lincoln – dealt in a package for a 1B
Wilson/Morris – hopefully start the year in the pen
Owens/Locke/Mcpherson – midseason callup candidates

by Mr. E on Aug 7, 2011 10:24 PM EDT reply actions

finally one that sounds decent

by white angus on Aug 8, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions

What Matters

Morton
McDonald
maybe Locke

That’s about all that you’ll see next season in terms of potential long-term candidates, unless Karstens proves that he is a legitimate 3.00-area E.R.A. guy with a similar season, which is not out-of-the-question. Look for him, Correia, and—as much as I still dislike it—probably Ohlendorf to be the rotation starting next season.

As much as I like Maholm, he’s just not living up to his option or status as a first-round pick and will receive more elsewhere than whatever the Pirates might offer to an average left-handed starter with stamina. The statistics balance between overrating and underrating him. As much as the yinzer bandwagon would have hated it, the Pirates should have sold high on him and Karstens.

The 2013 rotation is a much more interesting set of possibilities. :-)

by twistoffate1 on Aug 18, 2011 2:41 PM EDT reply actions