Kiss 'Em Goodbye: Pittsburgh Pirates (ESPN Insider)

The highlight for me came with Jim Bowden's contribution:

"After 19 consecutive losing seasons the Pirates need a couple of shrewd trades to help break the streak in 2012. The first bold move they should make is to try to trade for first baseman Yonder Alonso of the Cincinnati Reds. Alonso, 24, was the Reds' first-round selection (seventh overall) in the June 2008 free-agent amateur draft. Alonso hit .296/.374/.486 with 12 home runs at Triple-A Louisville this year before the Reds called him to the major leagues; however, he is blocked by Joey Votto at first, so he doesn't really have a position place in Cincy.

The Pirates should start by offering a package centered around outfielder Starling Marte, who is not only one of the best athletes in the Pirates' system, but would give the Reds a much-needed leadoff hitter. Marte is not enough to get Alonso straight up, but the Pirates do have some prospect depth to somehow make a deal work with Cincinnati. Alonso would give the Pirates another middle-of-the-order bat to build around Andrew McCutchen and Pedro Alvarez."

I'd say Alonso is insufficient for the Reds to acquire Marte.

8 months ago steve_z 27 comments 0 recs |

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Its odd

how people overvalue the plodder types who basically do one thing well and ignore people who do many things well. Alonso would be a great addition, yes. But not at the cost of Marte. If the Bucs could look at an OF of Marte, Cutch, and Tabata at some point next year…probably because he could impact the game both defensively and offensively.

by NastyNate82 on Sep 17, 2011 9:54 PM EDT reply actions

I like Presley

But I’d trade Presley for Alonso/Morrison and ????.

The Pirates need LH power bats.

Now would be a bad time to trade Marte. He’s undervalued.

s.zielinski

by steve_z on Sep 17, 2011 10:12 PM EDT reply actions

Please let me know, as I certainly may be reading this wrong

But did you say Presley for Alonso AND something else? Cause I really don’t think thats happening.

by NastyNate82 on Sep 17, 2011 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Presley > Alonso
ergo Presley = Alonso + ????

You may be right when claiming it won’t happen.

s.zielinski

by steve_z on Sep 17, 2011 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think

Presley’s better than Alonso at all…can you expand your thoughts on that?

by NastyNate82 on Sep 18, 2011 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions

Alex put up better numbers in AAA, doing awesome in 200 ABs in majors, far more value defensively. I’m pretty sure Alex has even out-homered Alonso this year. Alonso has the pedigree though and he’s not 5’ 9".

by Mr. E on Sep 18, 2011 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions

Yep

Presely ripped up the high-minors the last two seasons and has hit in the majors this year. I’d say that’s more than Alonso has achieved.

One important difference: Presley is older than Alonso.

s.zielinski

by steve_z on Sep 18, 2011 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions

Maybe

I’m curious as far as if there were any changes Presley made because before 2010, his minor-league numbers are fairly pedestrian. If we’re nitpicking here, Alonso has posted better numbers throughout their tour in the minors, if that means anything. The problem, as I see it, is that the Reds have hurt his value by jerking him around in left and I think they’re talking about moving him to third as well. The age difference, as you note, is a fairly significant factor too.

by NastyNate82 on Sep 18, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions

Presley reportedly adjusted his stroke, shortening it to make better contact. That’s what generated his breakout. A production improvement lasting two years is more than enough evidence to identify Presley as an improved hitter.

Presley won’t hit as many home runs as Alonso. But….

s.zielinski

by steve_z on Sep 18, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Nice, thanks.

by NastyNate82 on Sep 18, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions

If Presley is actually better than Alonso, he’s certainly not widely perceived as being so.

by Vlad on Sep 18, 2011 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions

agreed

by white angus on Sep 18, 2011 6:33 AM EDT up reply actions

That's a different claim

Perception v. reality

s.zielinski

by steve_z on Sep 18, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions

But not an unimportant one, if we’re talking about the respective trade values of both players.

by Vlad on Sep 18, 2011 9:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

I agree

One of the problems Huntington may face this off season is common perception of the team’s players and prospects. It’s difficult to compare prospects as one can compare major leaguers. The ML players generate a lot of reliable statistical information. The minor leaguers less so.

The problem: The Pirates can’t afford to overpay (in prospects or major leaguers) for a player they need, especially for someone who does not project to become an impact player when he’s a ML regular.

s.zielinski

by steve_z on Sep 18, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions

One of the problems Huntington may face this off season is common perception of the team’s players and prospects.

I suspect that may be why they’ve been lobbying so aggressively on the prospect status of some of their players (like Sanchez and Owens) over the last year or two. Trying to “work the refs”, so to speak.

by Vlad on Sep 19, 2011 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions

Every so often...

…I read an anonymous quote from a rival GM who claims that the Pirates overvalue their prospects. One wonders who truly misvalues these prospects, the Pirates or the other teams?

s.zielinski

by steve_z on Sep 19, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Seems like a ploy to me. It may be 100% true but it’s probably still some team like the Astros or Cubs wondering why they can’t get more for their mediocre stopgaps

by Mr. E on Sep 19, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions

i agree with you both

by white angus on Sep 20, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions

And yet

It will all be settled on the field one day. It appears obvious to me that the Pirates prospects are scrap, but we’ll see …

by RafaelBelliup on Sep 20, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Alex Presley, at age 26, has played in 64 major league games and has been worth 0.9 wins. This is in addition to having very little pedigree, having been not considered much of a prospect, and not having the best tools.

He doesn’t exactly scream “trade top prospects for me” in my opinion.

by thecheeseisblue on Sep 20, 2011 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions

is this guy serious

who would trade a player with potentially 5 tools for a guy who can just hit, is older, and has limited upside?

by buccobat on Sep 17, 2011 10:31 PM EDT reply actions

He's a former GM...so, take what he says with a grain of salt

by NastyNate82 on Sep 17, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions

While it’s technically true that Bowden is a former GM, it’s also a bit disingenuous leaving it at that, like saying that Max Pruss was an experienced pilot.

by Vlad on Sep 18, 2011 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions