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Breaking the curse of Barry Bonds

As you may or may not have heard, the Pittsburgh Pirates have yet to make the playoffs let alone have a winning season since 1992. That's right the Pirates, as most of you I'm sure will be shocked to find out, haven't been over 500 since the cost of gas went over a dollar. That just seems silly. Upon learning this mind-numbing information, I decided to do a bit of research. What could have caused this?

Well most of the information I found tended to point to mismanagement, greedy owners, noncompetitive collective bargaining agreements. This all seemed reasonable, but then I realized that such a streak was unmatched and clearly something else had to be at work. Then it hit me, the Pirates haven't had a winning season since Barry Bonds left. Similar streaks of futility have been linked to curses, the cubs haven't won a world series since they refused admission to a goat, and the Red Sox didn't win a world series after selling Babe Ruth to their rivals.

Now realizing that we are in fact victims of the curse of Barry Bonds, I figured I should look into exactly what happened. It seems that Barry guaranteed that if he didnt get a multi year contract for 25 million by the end of 1991, he was gone regardless of how much the Pirates offered at the end of 1992. The Pirates made no such offer and instead lowballed him in arbitration for the second year in a row. Sure enough, the Pirates then realized he was going to leave and even considered trading him to the Dodgers for John Wetteland and 3rd baseman Jeff Hamilton. The Pirates decided to keep him though, knowing full well he wouldn't resign. They made the playoffs, Sid Bream was safe, and the season ended. Then the Pirates due to sheer idiocracy, declined to offer arbitration despite an agreement being reached before the deadline for arbitration. The Pirates appealed but lost and as such didn't even get the two draft picks they should've easily gotten.

While our reaction as fans was preditctable, and justified, it was due to the way the whole saga was reported to us. We were told that he was greedy and left for more money. This is untrue as Bonds would've taken 18 mill less to stay a Pirate had we offered it to him before the end of 1991. We were told Bonds hated the city of Pittsburgh. This is untrue as Bonds really did seem to miss Pittsburgh. We also at least initially wrongly assumed that we would need him as we had 3 can't miss prospects coming up in Kevin Young (top prospect in baseball), Al Martin (minor league player of the year in 1992) and Orlando Merced. Well, we all know how that turned out.

The first sign of the curse occurred when Bonds hit an easy ground out to firstbaseman Kevin Young who then flipped the ball to Randy Tomlin. Tomlin dropped that ball and it's been all downhill since. Since then the Pirates have fallen victim to strange occurrences one after the other. Top pitching prospects needed Tommy John surgery, the team almost moved because it was so broke, can't miss prospects became Chad Hermansen, Derek Bell refused to compete for a starting outfield job. The team should've broken the streak during that last season in 3 rivers, but Kendall blew his ankle out and the squad fell apart from there. Yep, the team is clearly cursed. While it's probably true that other factors are at work, like the team not taking more advantage of spending on the draft, the team ignoring latin america for a while and the unbalanced revenue in baseball, you would think that somehow they would've lucked into one season at 500.

So what to do from here? Obviously we need to break the curse. First, of all I think Bond's number 24 jersey should be retired. He's the only two time MVP in team history and is one of the greatest players ever to wear a Pirate uniform. If you think that's asking too much, I understand the sentiment given he was only a Pirate for 7 seasons, but I still think he's worthy of the honor. As a no-brainer, the team should at the very very least invite him to spring training to be a hitting instructor to work with Pedro Alvarez . He's not going to make Pedro worse, and could probably help the kid. Barry struggled mightily early on and could pass things along. Barry has mentioned he wants to coach, but no one will touch him. Finally, we as fans need to let go, forgive and forget. Did it hurt when Barry left? YES. Is he entirely to blame? No. Should he have thrown out Sid Bream? probably. Let's leave the past in the past and end this curse.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

Comment 77 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Did not know that about the Pirates.

They really refused to offer arbitration to him? I thought the Elias Sports Bureau just decided to make him a Type B free agent for some unfathomable reason.

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Jan 12, 2012 5:51 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Nope

He was a type A. Basically the story goes as follows. The Giants and Bonds came to terms on the deal he eventually signed. The deal was then held up because the team was for sale. By the time the contract was approved, it was a day after the deadline to tender Bonds. The Pirates, despite the fact that he wasn’t even talking to them, elected not to offer arbitration despite Bonds being awarded just under 3million AFTER winning the MVP award. The Pirates got the tender in the day after the deadline and didn’t get picks for him.

The Pirates did however appeal to try to get the picks and while I couldn’t find an article showing that they lost, a review of the 1993 draft shows the Giants did in fact have a second round pick that year, while the Pirates had two, their original pick and the one they got as compensation from the Astros for Doug Drabek.

Bees Bees Everywhere

by VoteforPedro on Jan 12, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I see.

I was only 12 when he signed with the Giants and the newspaper my parents get here in Iowa could care less about the Pirates and Giants….

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Jan 12, 2012 7:44 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Looking back on the whole situation, it really is remarkable just how badly Pirates management screwed everything up.

by Vlad on Jan 16, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

You can thank Pittsburgh Associates and team President Mark Sauer for that

Yet no one in this town ever blames them, there people that truly believe that Kevin McClatchy or Bob Nutting (depending on who you ask) started all the losing. Yet it was the corporate overlords that made up the ownership group that broke up the team.

Ovechkin-Leich-Semin: The greatest line in hockey..............................Tee Hee

Proud supporter of the following clubs: Pittsburgh Penguins, Erie Otters, Columbus Crew, Boston Celtics and the best football clubs in the land: Manchester United F.C.

The Manchester United Football Club: Winning countless trophies and making City fans jealous and full of envy since 1902.

by Bradley James McEachern on Jan 16, 2012 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah...

They were the ones who fired Syd Thrift as soon as he put a winner on the field. They were the ones who let Larry Doughty trade Moises Alou away. They were the ones who made no effort to keep Bonds, Bonilla and Drabek. They were the ones who hired Cam Bonifay. McClatchy just kept Bonifay around for far too long.

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Jan 16, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

"They were the ones who let Larry Doughty trade Moises Alou away"

You see my avatar over there? It’s weeping.

…seriously, good points all; getting Zane was great but you wish they wouldn’t have given up so much for him.

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Jan 16, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

yep

just makes you wonder what happens if they match the offer 3 mill for 2 years offer that RJ reynolds got. He was Bonilla and Bonds best friend on the team. That, combined with them fighting tooth and nail on every arbitration, rather than ante up when both Bonds and Bonilla would likely have signed early for much less than they got.

I really really wonder what the last 19 years look like if we had either re-upped those guys or traded them away. Had we kept them, do we remain the kind of place that gets deals on guys in free agency? Had we traded them and gotten fair value, do we keep Moises Alou?

It’s pathetic, and I feel kind of dirty for all of the mean things I shouted at Bonds and Bonilla when they first came back

Bees Bees Everywhere

by VoteforPedro on Jan 16, 2012 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

When I think of the Alou-Smith trade, I think of this.

It was a trade that works out in the short term when your in a win now mode, but if you don’t win a title then it looks bad long term and that exactly what happened. Zane Smith was a major factor in winning those three division titles but because the Bucs didn’t win a title, the deal looks bad because you gave up a guy that could of been a big part of the team’s future.

Ovechkin-Leich-Semin: The greatest line in hockey..............................Tee Hee

Proud supporter of the following clubs: Pittsburgh Penguins, Erie Otters, Columbus Crew, Boston Celtics and the best football clubs in the land: Manchester United F.C.

The Manchester United Football Club: Winning countless trophies and making City fans jealous and full of envy since 1902.

by Bradley James McEachern on Jan 16, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Do you know why they fired Thrift?

Because he didn’t kiss ass, let me explain. Syd Thrift was a great evaluator of talent, but he was also a maverick that liked to do things his way and his way only and you have to remember the people that made up the Pittsburgh Associates ownership were high powered lawyers and people from the corporate word that were used to giving people orders and bossing people around and not the other way around.

I mean Doug Danforth the Chairman was a long time executive with Westinghouse, John McConnell was a steel baron (he would later find the NHL Columbus Blue Jackets), Paul O’ Neill was the CEO of Alcoa, Vincent Sarni was the CEO of USS and Carl Barger was a corporate law attorney in one of the biggest law firms in the city.

Thrift’s problems with the team all started when he couldn’t get along with then team President Malcolm Prine (who was the CEO of Ryan Homes). Even though Thrift was the GM, Prine wanted to have the last word on all trades and FA signings and they started to clash and eventually the ownership group backed Thrift and fired Prine (he was replaced with Carl Barger).

But Thrift and the ownership group clashed again when the team started to win and the corporate overlords began taking credit for the revitalization of the team. Thrift didn’t taking well and the ownership group fired him.

It has to be known that Thrift was not fired for his preformance (I found an article from the NYT in which Danforth said so) but basically because he was headstrong, a maverick and not a yes man and didn’t go over well since the majority of the people in the ownership group were people were used to bossing people around and expecting them to kiss their ass. That and they probally felt Thrift was dumb and beneath them since he was from the south and acted real folksy in public.

Shame.

Ovechkin-Leich-Semin: The greatest line in hockey..............................Tee Hee

Proud supporter of the following clubs: Pittsburgh Penguins, Erie Otters, Columbus Crew, Boston Celtics and the best football clubs in the land: Manchester United F.C.

The Manchester United Football Club: Winning countless trophies and making City fans jealous and full of envy since 1902.

by Bradley James McEachern on Jan 16, 2012 11:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Well Ted Simmons (the GM at the time) made one offer with Drabek

a five year $20 million deal. Drebek rejected it and the Bucs never offered another deal.

Ovechkin-Leich-Semin: The greatest line in hockey..............................Tee Hee

Proud supporter of the following clubs: Pittsburgh Penguins, Erie Otters, Columbus Crew, Boston Celtics and the best football clubs in the land: Manchester United F.C.

The Manchester United Football Club: Winning countless trophies and making City fans jealous and full of envy since 1902.

by Bradley James McEachern on Jan 16, 2012 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh and don't forget

They traded John Smiley away for peanuts. Unless of course you think trading away a 20 game winner for Denny Neagle and Midre Cummings a fair deal.

Ovechkin-Leich-Semin: The greatest line in hockey..............................Tee Hee

Proud supporter of the following clubs: Pittsburgh Penguins, Erie Otters, Columbus Crew, Boston Celtics and the best football clubs in the land: Manchester United F.C.

The Manchester United Football Club: Winning countless trophies and making City fans jealous and full of envy since 1902.

by Bradley James McEachern on Jan 16, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep.

I was in a hurry and wrote that thing pretty fast.

But yeah, the sad thing is that the Twins let him go and used their compensation pick they got from him to take Torii Hunter.

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Jan 17, 2012 7:37 AM EST up reply actions  

yep

I wonder if we would’ve taken Rolen with the one we didn’t get for Bonds

Bees Bees Everywhere

by VoteforPedro on Jan 17, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

I guess rec this article

If you enjoyed it Iand spread the word to other Pirates fans that we should forgive Bonds.

Bees Bees Everywhere

by VoteforPedro on Jan 12, 2012 9:14 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Maybe once you've fully healed

Get a Bonds 24 Jersey

Bees Bees Everywhere

by VoteforPedro on Jan 12, 2012 9:14 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I have a yellow pullover Bonds #24 Pirates jersey

It really polarizes people who talk to you in bars (mostly negatively).

by SuperBaes on Jan 14, 2012 2:02 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I will tell every Western Australian that gives two hoots about Pirates baseball.

So far I’m the only one I know.

by BlindSquirrel on Jan 15, 2012 7:00 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Wakefield

I’ve always thought of it as the curse of Tim Wakefield. The Pirates won’t win until he finally decides to retire, meaning that the last of the playoff-era Pirates has finally hung them up.

by Aphthakid on Jan 12, 2012 11:32 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Interesting...

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 13, 2012 6:58 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Don't forget Miguel Batista!

He pitched 2 innings for the 1992 Bucco squad and was still active as of 2011.

by mickeyg13 on Jan 13, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

was still active as of 2011

Still active, period. He just signed a minor league deal for 2012 with the Mets a couple of days ago.

Batista’s an interesting dude. In addition to his athletic pursuits, he’s also written and published a novel and a book of poetry.

by Vlad on Jan 16, 2012 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Interesting theory

however, Wakefield was a member of the 1993 team that went 75 & 87.

Therefore streak started before he left.

Conclusion: there is no such thing a the curse of Wakefield.

Bees Bees Everywhere

by VoteforPedro on Jan 13, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

No, the curse is that they wont win until every member of the 1992 team retires. Wakefield is the one still hanging around. Not sure if Batista counts, but we can’t find out until Timmy goes away.

by Aphthakid on Jan 13, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm more inclined to believe

it is the curse of Bud Selig. He did become acting commissioner in ‘92 (although I couldn’t tell when in ‘92). If it’s Seligula behind the curse we’ll have to wait until 2015 for a winning season.

by MDBuc on Jan 13, 2012 7:24 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Thought about that

Then I researched it and saw he wasn’t named commissioner until July 9, 1998. He was however named Chairman of the MLB Executive Council on September 9, 1992. The Pirates went 15-8 from that point on.

To sum it up:
Curse of Bonds – 1295 and 1713 since
Potential curse of Selig – 1310 and 1721 since.

Conclusion: Curse of Bonds is confirmed yet again by a hundreth of a percent

Bees Bees Everywhere

by VoteforPedro on Jan 13, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I looked it up....

Fay Vincent was forced out September 7, 1992…

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Jan 13, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I believe Selig was acting commissioner, or interim, I can’t remember which term they used, until ‘98, but he was in charge from 92 to 98, so I can still get behind the Seliguila’s Curse

by Wizard of Woz on Jan 13, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Click the date above

He was “Chairman of the MLB Executive Council” until July 9, 1998. Team went 15-8 in 1992 after he took that office. that’s what makes the Bonds record just a hair worse

Bees Bees Everywhere

by VoteforPedro on Jan 13, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

"If it’s Seligula behind the curse we’ll have to wait until 2015 for a winning season."

I’ll believe that when I see it.

“Bud” isn’t going anywhere.

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 13, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

BB back in baseball

I think the Pirates should bring Bonds back to the game, and get him involved in the organization.

by insane_sanity on Jan 13, 2012 5:47 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

One of my earliest Pirate memories actually

I was in the stadium that day. I heard it. It was awful.

The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass

by glass0941 on Jan 15, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

oops

“nor have i any desire to see it. i can’t take that gruesome crap”

by theatrain on Jan 16, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes.

You don’t want to see it.

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 16, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Augh.

I had just come off a golf course in San Diego with a buddy of mine, and we walked into the bar about 1 minute before it happened. Saw it on teevee.. Very nearly threw up.

At least as sickening, if not more, than Theismann.

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 14, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I almost vomited, too

Sitting at my buddy’s, watching it with like 5 other dudes… and everyone got sickly/silent. The only comps I have: Pujols’ 800-foot homerun off of Brad Lidge in the 2004 ALCS (complete silence) and the first time we saw the ending of Requiem For A Dream.

by SuperBaes on Jan 14, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

2004 NLCS, you mean?

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Jan 15, 2012 7:23 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Actually, 2005 NLCS.

Which the Cardinals lost anyways. Still, didn’t watch the NLCS that year. Really didn’t like the Cardinals and Astros.

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Jan 15, 2012 7:25 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, 2005 NLCS

Don’t know what’s wrong with me lately; I said something about the Pirates in the AL Central the other day. I’d better get in shape over the next 6 weeks before ST starts.

by SuperBaes on Jan 15, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

If you can stand to watch...

Here’s the awfulness on mlb.com.

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Jan 16, 2012 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

If you want to pick a curse...

…how about the curse of the Red Juice? No WS wins since the Pittsburgh Drug Trials.

by Vlad on Jan 16, 2012 9:43 AM EST reply actions  

barely an above-average drought, though

There are 30 teams and we haven’t won a WS in 32 years. I’m not prorating for the years there were fewer than 30 teams (or counting the season that Bud cancelled the WS), and I might be off by one, but someone’s almost bound to go without a WS win for that long.

I guess if the teams strictly rotated WS wins the average drought would be 15 years. As it happens the Pirates have gone the longest without winning of any team that’s won in recent memory; the next-shortest drought is the Indians, who haven’t won since 1948 (the curse of being in Cleveland), and then the Cubs haven’t won for a while. All the teams that never won are expansion teams, but a bunch of them started in the 60s so they’ve gone longer than the Pirates without winning.

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Jan 16, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yep.

See the Ravens. They sucked until they moved to Baltimore.

The NFL put another team in Cleveland, called them the Browns and they suck too.

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Jan 16, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Is it also a curse

to be from Cleveland?

Bees Bees Everywhere

by VoteforPedro on Jan 16, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't know, but I do know

A lot of people living elsewhere are from Cleveland.

by Midnight Moose on Jan 16, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

It's like I've always said about Mercer, PA (my birthplace):

It’s a nice place to be from – it’s not necessarily a nice place to be.

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 16, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

What?

I just looked it up on Wikipedia. Population of 2,391. I think it looks like a very nice place to live.

But again, I’m from Iowa and I’ve gotten lost in a city of 60,000 people. I don’t handle big cities very well.

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Jan 16, 2012 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

getting lost is never fun

Bees Bees Everywhere

by VoteforPedro on Jan 16, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I got lost once in Minneapolis and had a hell of a time.

Ovechkin-Leich-Semin: The greatest line in hockey..............................Tee Hee

Proud supporter of the following clubs: Pittsburgh Penguins, Erie Otters, Columbus Crew, Boston Celtics and the best football clubs in the land: Manchester United F.C.

The Manchester United Football Club: Winning countless trophies and making City fans jealous and full of envy since 1902.

by Bradley James McEachern on Jan 16, 2012 10:41 PM EST up reply actions  

When I was a lad

the population was around 1,600.

And it’s the County Seat.

That said, very pretty area, but the most boring place on Earth.

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 16, 2012 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah I see.

I do well in boring places.

Hell, I live in Dubuque, freaking Iowa. You don’t get more painfully normal and boring than that.

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Jan 17, 2012 7:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Troo dat.

See you Saturday!

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 17, 2012 8:09 AM EST up reply actions  

I know there's a curse for San Diego

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_Sports_Curse

Ovechkin-Leich-Semin: The greatest line in hockey..............................Tee Hee

Proud supporter of the following clubs: Pittsburgh Penguins, Erie Otters, Columbus Crew, Boston Celtics and the best football clubs in the land: Manchester United F.C.

The Manchester United Football Club: Winning countless trophies and making City fans jealous and full of envy since 1902.

by Bradley James McEachern on Jan 16, 2012 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

my next post Vlad

will be a book review of the Pittsburgh Cocaine 7 book I am currently reading. I didn’t want to infer anything here, but if we still worship Parker and Stargell, both were avid cocaine and amphetamine users who played all sorts of jacked up, we can’t hate on Bonds for juicing too.

Bees Bees Everywhere

by VoteforPedro on Jan 16, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

i believe bud selig said to himself,

someday i’ll be incharge. i’ll make pittsburgh pay for this embarrassment to baseball.

by karreemofwheat on Jan 16, 2012 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmm....

Stargell and Parker help to win championships for us. Last I checked, Bonds never won a championship.

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Jan 16, 2012 7:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Not only that but he completely choked in the playoffs

Him, Bonilla, Van Slyke etc.

Ovechkin-Leich-Semin: The greatest line in hockey..............................Tee Hee

Proud supporter of the following clubs: Pittsburgh Penguins, Erie Otters, Columbus Crew, Boston Celtics and the best football clubs in the land: Manchester United F.C.

The Manchester United Football Club: Winning countless trophies and making City fans jealous and full of envy since 1902.

by Bradley James McEachern on Jan 16, 2012 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Van Slyke gets a pass.

Because he’s white and stayed with the team until after the losing started.

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Jan 16, 2012 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Well

He did much better later in his career on that last trip in, Bonilla did win a title with the Marlins

Bees Bees Everywhere

by VoteforPedro on Jan 16, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

But they didn't do squat here when we really needed them to

That’s what I was getting at.

Ovechkin-Leich-Semin: The greatest line in hockey..............................Tee Hee

Proud supporter of the following clubs: Pittsburgh Penguins, Erie Otters, Columbus Crew, Boston Celtics and the best football clubs in the land: Manchester United F.C.

The Manchester United Football Club: Winning countless trophies and making City fans jealous and full of envy since 1902.

by Bradley James McEachern on Jan 16, 2012 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

oh, def agree

yeah, they choked… or ran into one of the greatest pitching staffs of all time, depends on which way you look at it.

Bees Bees Everywhere

by VoteforPedro on Jan 16, 2012 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Probally a little bit of both

Yeah the pitching the Braves had were great, but if you look at those Bonds, Bonilla and Van Slyke stats during the playoffs for their standards were pathetic.

Ovechkin-Leich-Semin: The greatest line in hockey..............................Tee Hee

Proud supporter of the following clubs: Pittsburgh Penguins, Erie Otters, Columbus Crew, Boston Celtics and the best football clubs in the land: Manchester United F.C.

The Manchester United Football Club: Winning countless trophies and making City fans jealous and full of envy since 1902.

by Bradley James McEachern on Jan 16, 2012 11:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Not only that but he completely choked in the playoffs

He did redeem himself a bit in 2002-2003 with the Giants.

by Vlad on Jan 17, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

(Coke for VFP, who got there first.)

by Vlad on Jan 17, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

he also did fine at the plate in '92

even if he was overshadowed by the otherworldly performance of Lloyd McClendon.

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Jan 17, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm sorry but I can never hate Pops for what he did for this town

Can’t and won’t.

Ovechkin-Leich-Semin: The greatest line in hockey..............................Tee Hee

Proud supporter of the following clubs: Pittsburgh Penguins, Erie Otters, Columbus Crew, Boston Celtics and the best football clubs in the land: Manchester United F.C.

The Manchester United Football Club: Winning countless trophies and making City fans jealous and full of envy since 1902.

by Bradley James McEachern on Jan 16, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Wasn't saying hate Pops

Was just saying Bonds and he both took stuff that made them better hitters. And yes while steroids allow you to hit the ball further, the speed is second to none in helping you pick up the ball from the pitchers hand much much faster

Bees Bees Everywhere

by VoteforPedro on Jan 16, 2012 10:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Also very helpful if you really want to see demons.

by SuperBaes on Jan 17, 2012 2:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Or if you like laying in bed

grinding your teeth and saying to yourself, “go to sleep, go to sleep, go to sleep, go to sleep…”

At 4 o’clock in the morning.

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 17, 2012 6:41 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

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A couple guys that could help the Buccos offense
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The Pirates Pitchers Have Adopted Their Own Sign: The FU!

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