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Per Jon Heyman. It will involve more players, but those are the principals. I have to say I like this for the Yankees. I'll take the pitcher in deals like this.

4 months ago Tiny biggyv 62 comments 0 recs  | 

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Not sure I like this one bit for the M’s. Why trade one of the best (potential anyway) young starters in the game for a guy who will be a career DH. Figure the secondaries would even out the trade, but I think higher of Campos than I do of Noesi. How the M’s didn’t get Banuelos or Betances along with Montero for what they gave up is hard to fathom.

by pskell02 on Jan 13, 2012 8:00 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

I dunno

Montero can MASH. I think more than just about any prospect in the minors there are virtually no concerns about his bat. But you’re absolutely right about the position concerns. Where does he go? If the Yankees were willing to deal with Posada’s defense (never great, but quite bad over his last years) and pulled the plug on Montero that quick, that speaks volumes about how he must not fit behind the plate. On the other hand…maybe this isn’t a bad buy-low opportunity for the Bucs on Smoak…

by NastyNate82 on Jan 13, 2012 8:14 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I thinke SAFECO is going to hurt his power significantly. The M’s are going to have to move someone. I don’t see Montero ever setting foot behind the plate. They are going to have to shuffle him, Carp, and Smoak between 1B and DH. The can’t really park any of them in RF with Ichiro still going.

If I’m the Yankees, I’m salavating over this move. Let Romine hold the position behind the plate for a few years until Gary Sanchez is ready to go. Kid is going to be an absolute stud.

by pskell02 on Jan 13, 2012 8:22 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Montero will set foot behind the plate…at least in the near-term.

I’m going to bet the Mariners have Carp play some LF, and end up with Carp/Gutierrez/Ichiro in the OF, and 3B/Ryan/Ackley/Smoak in the IF w/ Olivo/Jaso/Montero doing some catching…and Montero also getting ABs at DH, and possibly mixing in some 1B.

I think this deal speaks to 1.) what the Mariners think of Montero’s bat and 2.) how badly the needed some offense (and especially a RH bat). I like Jack Z, and hope this works out well for him.

It will be interesting to see Pineda pitch in NY though…SAFECO to Yankee Stadium…something is going to give (I’ll bet it is his 9% HR/FB ratio).

by insane_sanity on Jan 13, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Jaso's terrible

.224/.298/.354 and the -0.5 dWAR don’t cover it adequately… it’s painful to watch him play.

by SuperBaes on Jan 14, 2012 1:48 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

ive actually watched him play

hes always been a backup in waiting. and i wouldnt call him terrible, hes bascially adequate with a good batting eye.

by white angus on Jan 14, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I've watched him play a lot

The only thing that ever made him look “good” was when you were comparing him to Kelly Shoppach. Pittsburgh’s a mess, but at least their catching duo isn’t Jaso and Shoppach.

Jaso had that ridiculously high OBP with no power at all (.372 OBP was nice in 2010, but SLG was .378) and I liked that Maddon put him at the top of the lineup, but he looked completely lost at the plate last year and his defense isn’t any reason to play him if he’s not hitting.

by SuperBaes on Jan 14, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Sorry; watched too much Rays baseball last year and it made me bitter towards those two guys.

by SuperBaes on Jan 15, 2012 12:43 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

lol

you were bitter watching a winning team? you’d be a good Sox fan.

j/k

by white angus on Jan 15, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Well

I don’t think they should let Ichiro hold back any kind of decisions like this. He appears to be in a pretty steep decline from the past 2 years. To be honest, I kind of like the move for both teams…the Mariners have some pretty serious pitching coming thru the pipes with Hultzen and Walker. And their offense is god-awful terrible. So they got a potential cornerstone bat, even if he plays 1B or DH. As far as the Yanks, they got a young, cheap, hard-throwing starter to go behind CC. Hard to argue with that.
Side effect: the last 2 years the Yankees have been beating down the M’s door for Felix Hernandez. This basically stops that.

by NastyNate82 on Jan 13, 2012 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Montero has awesome power the other way...

which will offset the effect of SAFECO. And if you think Montero doesn’t fit as a catcher, wait until you see Sanchez behind the plate. Not saying he doesn’t have the time to improve, but reports have not been positive this year.

www.drstrangeglove.com

by nycbucsfan on Jan 14, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

wrong!!!!

sorry, but you are.

by white angus on Jan 14, 2012 7:57 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

From

What I’ve heard, Sanchez has been serviceable behind the plate (till this year) but was quite awful this past year…on the other hand ,he is really young and has chances to bounce back.

by NastyNate82 on Jan 15, 2012 2:06 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

from what ive heard AND seen, his defense is not to worry about

he is really quick in his pop time.
his arm is strong but accuracy is average
his plate blocking is superb
his game calling is coming along.

whomever is saying otherwise is talking out their ass, and im not singling you out Nate. im just saying the ones who reported that evaluation is probably just pissed that the Pirates drafted sanchez in the first place. tony has a long career in the majors, barring injury.

by white angus on Jan 15, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I think this string was referencing GARY Sanchez, the Yankee prospect.

by Mr. E on Jan 15, 2012 7:16 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Correct...

I was talking about Gary not Tony

by NastyNate82 on Jan 16, 2012 1:05 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Oh, I see, well - that's different...

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 16, 2012 7:21 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

This could lower the price of the remaining free agent pitchers. Yankees might not look at them at all anymore. Maybe we could sign Oswalt, Kuroda or Jackson for much cheaper now.

by Cainyoudigit on Jan 13, 2012 8:09 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

I’m past thinking the Pirates will go after any of those guys, even if their price tags drop. I think Francis is the best-case scenario at this point.

by biggyv on Jan 13, 2012 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Cancel previous comment. Yankees apparently just signed Kuroda.

by Cainyoudigit on Jan 13, 2012 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really a huge fan of Montero's bat

I don’t see him as a star 1B, but maybe the Ms still think he can catch. If they’re going to put Montero at 1B or DH, I say the Ms gave up too much.

by maguro on Jan 13, 2012 9:11 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

May I ask why you're not a fan of his bat?

He’s mashed at every level and been young for that level…what’s not to like?

by NastyNate82 on Jan 13, 2012 11:00 PM EST up reply actions  

He didn’t really “mash” at AAA last year, he put a 120 OPS+ and struck out over 20% of the time. For a 1B/DH prospect that’s good but not great. Granted, he was young for the league. Obviously, if he’s catching it’s a different story.

by maguro on Jan 14, 2012 9:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

True about the catching

If he was a serviceable catcher, than he’s the top prospect in baseball (and probably not traded). By the way, last year in the minors was by FAR his worst year…so I wouldn’t necessarily take that too seriously.

by NastyNate82 on Jan 14, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

actually

after the all star game he put up a .909 OPS in AAA (.558 SLG), not including his numbers with the NYY.

I view Montero much the same way I do Pedro Alvarez — you keep trying them at C and 3B, respectively, until they absolutely FORCE you to put them at 1B (and then to DH if necessary). Their bats just have far too much potential value at those positions.

by insane_sanity on Jan 14, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

Although since the Yankees lived with Posada’s catching for 10-15 years and weren’t willing to put up with Montero’s, that kind of says a lot. Anyone think Hughes might be available?

by NastyNate82 on Jan 14, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

He got off to a really slow start

and then caught fire down the stretch. Obviously he’ll have to hit more as a DH than a catcher to be a “star” but his bat does seem pretty special to me.

by KentuckyPirate on Jan 15, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Possible byproduct

Yankees now have:

CC
Pineda
Nova
Kuroda
Hughes
Burnett
Garcia

You have to think they’ll be moving somebody.

Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!

by WTM on Jan 13, 2012 9:18 PM EST reply actions  

I think the Bucs could revisit Burnett

The Yankees clearly have no place for him, the fans hate him there, it might be a good opportunity to see if they’ll eat a bit more salary than they were willing to previously.

by biggyv on Jan 13, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

You think you’d take Burnett?

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by Brandon C. on Jan 14, 2012 1:50 AM EST up reply actions  

If NYY ate a good chunk of salary, yeah.

He outperformed his numbers last year, and between moving from the AL East to the NL Central and from Yankee Stadium to PNC, I think he could bounce back and be pretty effective.

by biggyv on Jan 14, 2012 3:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I think he would

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Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter

by Brandon C. on Jan 14, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh.

If I was a betting man, I’d guess that Hughes, at least, will get moved to the bullpen. Not the best move for the Yanks, but it’s the one I think they’ll make.

This probably does signal the end of Burnett as a Yankee, though.

Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.

"Matt Cooke and Evgeni Malkin for Brian Boyle, Derek Stepan, Brandon Dubinsky, Mike Rupp, and a first round pick." -JackCampbell

How many brooks would a Brooks Laich like if a Brooks Laich could like brooks?

by wg1of5 on Jan 13, 2012 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

And a dumb one too...

Unless they acquire other teams pitchers, the Yankees really have no idea what to do when they come up with a good one on their own. Because they don’t want to wait patiently while the young pitcher may (and likely will) have some growing pains. So you end up with situations like Joba and Hughes being jerked around.

by NastyNate82 on Jan 13, 2012 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I think they only move a starter to make room for another starter

If something happens and Banuelos/Betances show up to ST pitching like 1999 Pedro, or if they make a lateral move for a similar guy (4/5 starter; maybe something like Lincoln/Karstens; I could be drastically overvaluing them)… I think that’s the only scenerio where they move one of those guys. They thrived from having some kind of pitching depth last year after losing Hughes and Cashman’s gotten careful in his old age.

by SuperBaes on Jan 14, 2012 1:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I wish Garcia could be gone and Burnett/Hughes could battle for #5 spot

Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc

Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter

"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."

"Every day is a great day for hockey."

by Brandon C. on Jan 14, 2012 1:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Can't understand this trade at all for the M's.

The way I see it, Pineda is probably among the ten or twenty most valuable trading pieces in the entire major leagues. Put it this way; if Justin Verlander was on the move, wouldn’t you expect the team trading him to receive far more than just Montero? Pineda has that kind of ceiling, an excellent rookie year under his belt, and is 23 and cost-controlled. As was noted above, it makes no sense for the Mariners not to have gotten a guy like Banuelos or Betances in addition to Montero.

Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.

"Matt Cooke and Evgeni Malkin for Brian Boyle, Derek Stepan, Brandon Dubinsky, Mike Rupp, and a first round pick." -JackCampbell

How many brooks would a Brooks Laich like if a Brooks Laich could like brooks?

by wg1of5 on Jan 13, 2012 9:20 PM EST reply actions  

Don't forget Campos

Kid has the potential, IMO, to be just as good as Pineda.

by pskell02 on Jan 13, 2012 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

In fairness

Pineda is not as good as Justin Verlander.

by maguro on Jan 13, 2012 9:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

No need to ask why Mariners’ management can’t be taken seriously… Pineda for Montero… Really Z ?

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 13, 2012 10:23 PM EST reply actions  

Too soon.

These guys are both monstrously talented youngsters. You can’t say right now that one team or the other got screwed.

by NastyNate82 on Jan 13, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure you never know

Though right now, who you would pick between a monstrously talented pitcher with little but pretty decent Majors experience and a monstrously talented DH/1B prospect ?

I used to appreciate the Mariners duo with Pineda and Hernandez, they were cool. Now Pineda won’t be no more cool, damn Yankees stole my toy again.

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 13, 2012 11:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd take the hitter, all things considered.

Everyone is ignoring that Pineda faltered pretty badly down the stretch from July on. Now, I know he’s a rookie pitcher, they’re allowed to struggle, and so on. But I also read he’s primarily a two-pitch pitcher which makes me a little nervous. I think starters can get by on two pitches, provided those 2 pitches are very good, but it does leave little margin for error. And while everyone is pointing out that Montero’s numbers will suffer by going to Safeco, what about Pineda’s numbers coming not only to Yankee Stadium, but to the AL East?

by NastyNate82 on Jan 14, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

But I also read he’s primarily a two-pitch pitcher which makes me a little nervous

.
That’s the biggest concern with him obviously but Montero’s 2nd AAA season has not been that great neither, he regressed a bit. Sure, they’re young and both could make anyone “a little nervous” with those issues, though as equivalent talent I thought a pitcher would worth more than a hitter.

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 14, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Montero

Montero started off last season slow in Triple A but picked it up to a pretty good pace as he went along, and obviously hit very well in the big leagues. This says more about Seattle’s lineup than anything else but…did he just become their best hitter? I guess what I’m trying to point out is this: everyone is making a big deal about Montero’s position uncertainty, but its not like Pineda doesn’t come with a couple question marks himself.

by NastyNate82 on Jan 14, 2012 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

So

how does this affect the Ms bid to get Fielder, there are creating quite the jam up

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Jan 13, 2012 11:35 PM EST reply actions  

I would guess

it takes them out of the running, I’d think. Or if they were thinking radically, maybe signing Prince and trading Smoak (although that might not be too smart as Smoak’s value is lukewarm). More than likely, I’d think they would sit that out. I’m still thinking Texas or Washington does it.

by NastyNate82 on Jan 13, 2012 11:54 PM EST up reply actions  

My only question

Why wasn’t this Felix? He’s a better player and is the face along with Ichiro but he’s only got 3 more years left before the Yankees steal him anyways and he’s far more expensive. Since they aren’t really close to contention I’d think they would look further down the road and keep Pineda to pair with Hultzen and co.

by Mr. E on Jan 14, 2012 2:38 AM EST reply actions  

Pretty sure the Mariners won't deal Felix, at least not now

Yanks have been banging on that door for years, so I wonder if they’re going to try to tie up Felix in Seattle.

by NastyNate82 on Jan 14, 2012 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

it would take a huge deal to get Felix, and the M's are waiting for the right time

if they start winning again, the M’s have the money to keep him. if they continue to struggle, they could ship him to someone like, for example, the Blue Jays, who still may have plenty of top prospects to deal in the next couple of seasons.

can you imagine the haul Felix would bring back?

by white angus on Jan 14, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

It would take a good chunk of the farm system...probably 2 A-list prospects.

This is also where I think draft picks traded wouldn’t be an entirely bad idea; if a team traded 2 big prospects and their pick in the next year’s draft to get him. Also having a star like who might walk away is Exhibit A as far as why you shouldn’t scrap compensation picks completely.

by NastyNate82 on Jan 14, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m sure the M’s would be looking for something like 4 propspects for Felix

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Jan 14, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Or if not prospects

Guys who are only a year or two into control…and this is just an example, but if it happened now, players like Hosmer.

by NastyNate82 on Jan 14, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

probably a combination. Some MLB ready guys now, with a prospect or two.

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Jan 15, 2012 12:04 AM EST up reply actions  

100% agree

and the “prospect or two” would be of the AAA/AA variety, not a kid in A- ball.

by insane_sanity on Jan 16, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting deal. I kind of like it more from the Yankee perspective, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Montero has a better career than Pineda. I am glad to see Jack Z. go for a player like Montero. When he was with the Brewers, he drafted players who could mash but lacked defensive chops — Fielder, Braun, Lawrie. He abandoned that philosophy with the Mariners, suddenly becoming fascinated with defense, and I think it has hurt the club.

by bolton on Jan 14, 2012 4:25 AM EST reply actions  

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