Retrospective Torture: A Pittsburgh Pirates Draft Review - 2000-2009
Since Jose Reyes signed with the Marlins, Pujols with the Angels and CHENPOCALYPSE came to an anti-climactic end with The Legend Bruce Chen re-signing with the Royals, it’s been a generally slow offseason. All this time without baseball has led me to return to FanGraphs over and over to find some crazy stat to write about. Sure, I found out that Franklin Gutierrez has been the best defensive outfielder in baseball for the past 6 years, without it even being close. I found out that Michael Cuddyer’s wife was Justin Upton’s 10th grade English teacher in Norfolk, Virginia. I found out that Jeff Mathis is simply one of the worst players to ever exist. I found that in 2004, an unknown overweight pitcher named Yusmeiro Petit racked up 200 strikeouts in the minors in just under 140 innings with a fastball topping out at 86 MPH. Nothing really satisfied me. Then I found the Pirates.
The Pittsburgh Pirates have been purrrrrrrrty bad for a while now. But why ? Why do they continue to put metaphorical steaming piles of horse shit out on the field at PNC Park ? It all starts with the draft. Before we get to the bad, it should be known that the last two Pirates draft picks, pitchers Gerrit Cole and Jameson Taillon look pretty fucking awesome. Then again, that's what they say every year. So let's get started, shall we ?

Pirates GM Neal Huntington: "Trust me, I got this"
The Basics:
- The Pirates' first round picks have been in the following slots going backward chronologically from 2009: 4th, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 11th, 11th, 8th, 1st, 8th, 19th.
- In the first three rounds of those 10 drafts, the Pirates have drafted 29 players. One didn’t sign (Tanner Scheppers) and Chris Young never pitched for the Pirates.
- 12 position players, 17 pitchers
- 11 of those 29 have made the majors
- Four of those 11 are position players, seven are pitchers
- Those four (Pedro Alvarez, Andrew McCutchen, Neil Walker and Brian Bixler) have combined for 3,903 plate appearances, 95 home runs, and a .693 OPS.
- Those four have combined for 17.5 WAR. 12.9 of that belongs to Andrew McCutchen.
- Over the last two seasons, Jose Bautista (who was drafted by the Pirates in the 2000 draft, and eight years later traded to Blue Jays for backup catcher Robinson Diaz, owner of one career home run) has hit 97 home runs in 1,388 plate appearances.
- The seven pitchers (Daniel Moskos, Brad Lincoln, Paul Maholm, Tom Gorzelanny, Bryan Bullington, John Van Benschoten and Sean Burnett) have combined for 2,408.2 innings pitched. 1,143.2 of those innings belong to Paul Maholm.
- The seven pitchers have also combined for 114 wins ! And 176 losses :(
- The seven pitchers have combined for 1,605 strikeouts. Tim Lincecum and Clayton Kershaw, both drafted within seven picks AFTER the Pirates took Brad Lincoln with the 4th overall pick in 2006, have a combined 1,872 strikeouts in 1,744.1 innings. Oh, and three Cy Young awards.
- The seven pitchers have combined for 20.6 WAR, 13.9 of which belong to Paul Maholm.
Summarizing what they've missed out on:
- 21 of the 2012 Scout.com Top 100 prospects
- 18 of the 2011 Baseball Prospectus Top 100 prospects
- 30 All-Stars
- Two MVP’s (Joey Votto, Dustin Pedroia)
- One World Series MVP (Cole Hamels)
- By my count, 98 Major Leaguers, but there are most certainly some that I missed.
- Four Rookies of the Year (Dustin Pedroia, Huston Street, Buster Posey, Craig Kimbrel)
- Four Cy Young winners (Tim Lincecum twice, Clayton Kershaw, and Zack Greinke)
On second thought...

Let's go year by year to rub it in !
- The Buccos took John Van Benschoten with the 8th pick of the 2001 draft. Besides being named John Van Benschoten, the guy didn’t have much going for him. He pitched 90 awful major league innings, going 2-13 with stellar 9.20 ERA. He also managed the rare and hard to accomplish negative WAR at -0.8. What did the Pirates miss out on 25 picks later ? WELL JEFF MATHIS OF COURSE (and some guy named David Wright five picks later).
"There's another run...why am I even here ?"

- 2002 was a fun year. The Pirates had the number one overall pick ! That’s so exciting ! Until you take Bryan Bullington. *facepalm* After starting his career 0-7, Bullington picked up his first career win in the year 2010 as a member of the Kansas City Royals. Selected within six picks after him were fairly notable players such as Zack Greinke and Prince Fielder. Yup. Them. Several picks later came this World Series MVP fella, Cole Hamels. In the 2nd round, the Pirates took pitcher Blair Johnson 42nd overall. Blair Johnson never made the majors. The guy that was taken two picks later, Joey Votto, won an MVP.
Bryan Bullington, heart of a champion.

- With the 8th overall pick of the 2003 draft, Pittsburgh drafted starting pitcher Paul Maholm. He’s been a consistent, below average innings eater for the Bucs since he made the majors in 2005. 21 picks later, after a few other solid big league pitchers were selected such as John Danks and Chad Billingsley, a legend was taken. ***RANDOM AND UNPLANNED BUT STILL WORTHWHILE TANGENT WARNING*** The Arizona Diamondbacks took Carlos Quentin with the 29th overall pick. Why is Carlos Quentin a legend ? He gets hit. A lot. Over the last two seasons, Quentin was hit 43 times. Over that same span of time and 162 more plate appearances, Yuniesky Betancourt drew 46 walks. Throughout his career, Quentin has been hit by a pitch in 4% of his plate appearances. Betancourt has drawn a walk in 3.3% of his. What. If we look back to Quentin’s stats at Stanford University, we find that his hit-by-pitch skillz are not a new thing. He was hit 48 times in college. Including his college career and minor league time, since 2001, Carlos Quentin has been hit by an astoundingly awesome 259 pitches. I think his stance might have SOMETHING to do with it.
"Alright, gimme something to hit..."

"GOD DAMN IT, NOT AGAIN."

- 2004 provided another “FUCK, WE MISSED AN MVP” moment for Pirate nation. With the 52nd overall pick, they selected Brian Bixler. Mr. Bixler has accounted for exactly zero major league home runs, and a solid -0.9 WAR. 13 picks later was an undersized infielder that resembled an elf. His name was Dustin Pedroia.
- 2005 worked out well for Pittsburgh. Yes, you can read that a few more times to make sure that's really what that says. They took Andrew McCutchen 11th overall, and he’s pretty fucking awesome. (If you don’t like McCutchen, it’s worth noting that Jacoby Ellsbury was taken 12 picks later)
- As already noted before, in 2006 the Pirates took Brad Lincoln over Clayton Kershaw and Tim Lincecum. I don’t even think that needs explanation. As if that wasn’t bad enough, they also missed out on Drew Stubbs, Max Scherzer, Ian Kennedy and the only human to ever throw a 99 MPH changeup, Daniel Bard.
- 2007 hauled in Daniel Moskos for the Bucs, several picks before young stars such as Matt Wieters, Madison Bumgarner, Jason Heyward and Jordan Zimmermann. They also decided that pitcher Duke Welker was a better second round selection than a guy who already has a legit shot at breaking the all-time home run record, Mike Stanton.
- 2008 netted the Pirates this fat, power-only “third baseman" Pedro Alvarez at 2nd overall. (I may or may not be being unnecessarily harsh because I drafted Alvarez REALLY high in many fantasy leagues and he sucked hardcore). The next pick was Eric Hosmer. THE HOSMASAUR. COME ON HUNTINGTON. Also this Buster Posey dude, and the growing Canadian legend, Brett Lawrie.
"Y'all crazy."

- Tony Sanchez, the 2009 4th overall pick, is a hardly promising young catcher. He’s yet to make it out of Double-A. Following this pick came about 20 fantastic young prospects including the number one prospect in all of baseball (even over Bryce Harper), Mike Trout.
So there. A little over 1,300 words on the tragic entity that is, a Pittsburgh Pirates draft.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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Comments
I'll be honest
I wish I could give this post like a negative value or an unrec or something. Great work, you put a lot of time into it as it appears, but the same arguement can be made for almost any team that didn’t end up with the players you named. As for NH drafts, the jury is still out, even on Pedro.
Its also misleading to have NH preclude you divulging into each years draft, when NHs first draft was 2008.
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
How can it be snark at NH?
He took over in September 2007, after that year’s draft. So this post covers mostly Dave Littlefield years and ignores NH’s 2010 (Taillon and Allie) and 2011 (Cole and Bell) drafts.
Welcome to the new dark ages.....
Well, it ain't DL's picture
at the top of the post…
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Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 18, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, should'a read:
How can this be a credible critique of NH? et cetera, et cetera. I agree that this troll (trolls are NOT related to trogluddites!) seems to be trying to nail the current front office for no apparent new reasons and doing so selectively.
Welcome to the new dark ages.....
Ah.
My bad.
Has anyone noticed that the comments this poster has made on other boards seem to no longer exist?
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Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 20, 2012 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
eh, they're there
They’re just too old to appear under “recent activity.”
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Jan 20, 2012 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
Shhhh....
Don’t blow my “conspiracy theory.”
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 21, 2012 9:35 AM EST up reply actions
Criticizing the Alvarez pick
..is ridiculous. The vast majority of people agreed he was the guy to pick at that spot.
Go fuck yourself troll
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
by Kosstic518 on Jan 18, 2012 6:08 AM EST via mobile reply actions
gahd look at jordan blowing bryce harper
aka mcbomination
by karreemofwheat on Jan 18, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
I think all the previous commenters missed the mark by a couple hundred miles
read it as a glimpse into the pain and suffering of a Pirates fan, instead of any kind of attack on anyone in particular (not sure how they got to that).
Your post could have more easily been titled

.
Pirates’ fans are well aware of our recent draft history.
.
.
Also? Nobody gives two craps about your fantasy team, and your depiction of Pedro as fat is ridiculous and unfounded.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
look i know we're all a little sensitive to our team's misfortunes
but this is actually a pretty spot on post. i don’t think it’s toooo trollish and i got a decent chuckle out of it. beats the hell outta BFD’s bullcrap, no?
I do think it’s too early to condemn the alvarez pick. but he HAS to have a good year this season
I'm not overly sensitive,
nor do I need a review of the Pirates’ draft for the last 10 years (and who they could have selected instead) – a subject that has been chronicled here and elsewhere ad infinitum. This piece sheds absolutely no new light on the subject.
And, as pointed out by CShint, what’s the point of going over DL’s drafts? We all know they were crap.
at least the poster has accomplished what he set out to do – set fingers a-typing.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 18, 2012 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
You know
That position player OPS and WAR is much higher than I would’ve expected given that Brian Bixler contributed. But really, this was a waste of time. A huge waste. In fact, it’s the metaphorical steaming pile of shit in Bucs Dugout (see what I did there?)
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
yep.
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Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 18, 2012 9:11 AM EST up reply actions
There's a right way and a wrong way to criticize the Pirates' drafting
This is the wrong way:
Summarizing what they’ve missed out on:
21 of the 2012 Scout.com Top 100 prospects
18 of the 2011 Baseball Prospectus Top 100 prospects
I’m not sure how you arrived at these numbers, but you’re essentially assuming perfect hindsight here. Yes, knowing what we know about how the prospects rank on the Top 200, we can say that the Pirates could’ve used their picks to select 21 more players who would’ve ranked on the top 100. But, for any given pick, the odds are overwhelming that someone who picked later would be better — because it’s only possible to take one player with the pick, and there are lots and lots of players who are taken later. That’s why no team has 21 players in the Scout 100, even if we can go back and say they could’ve grabbed those players with those picks. (In fact, the Pirates have 5 players in the top 100, which long division will tell you is above average.)
It makes it extraordinarily easy to cherrypick, and that’s what you do throughout the post. For instance: “13 picks later was an undersized infielder that resembled an elf. His name was Dustin Pedroia.” Why are we comparing Bixler with the guy who was picked 13 picks later? Why not with the guy who was picked next, or 12 picks later, or 14 picks later? Because we know with hindsight that the guy picked 13 picks later won an MVP, while the next pick was the immortal Wes Whisler (1.1 innings in the majors with a 13.50 ERA) and the guy picked 14 picks later was Grant Johnson, who topped out at AA. (The guy picked 12 picks later was Hunter Pence, who was OK.) You could make any team look bad by this kind of analysis. It tells us nothing.
You obviously put a lot of work into this. It’s a shame you didn’t put more thought in before you put in the work. It’s easy to show that the Pirates drafted poorly in, uh, whatever we call that decade — your roundup of facts at the beginning establishes that. (You do know that Neal Huntington wasn’t in charge for most of those drafts, don’t you?) But spending 900 more words on cherry-picking and snark tells us nothing.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Jan 18, 2012 9:33 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
i think the guy has a great sense of humor... the 99mph change up had me rollin'
on a different website it may even turn green
The biggest problem with this piece...
…is that by restricting it to 2000, you’re cutting off the worst Pirates draft of the modern era: 1994.
46 picks. Only two ended up making the majors. One of those two was a 46th rounder who didn’t sign… and the other was Jimmy Anderson.
It was a pretty strong draft class, too. We were picking in the #11 slot, and between #12 and #20, there were a fair number of substantial contributors taken: Nomar, Konerko, Varitek, Ramon Castro, and Terrence Long.
jimmy anderson was the best thing that ever happened to pittsburgh...
… area buffet-style restaurants
by johnnycuff on Jan 18, 2012 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That was depressing
I clicked through to about 2000, then I couldn’t take the sadness any longer.
And Jesus Christ, relax people. I’m sure the OP wasn’t trying to “enlighten” any Pirates fan of longer than five minutes with the knowledge that our drafts generally suck, or that hindsight is the best sight. I got a few chuckles out of it. You’d think the guy called your wives and mothers all whores and jezebels with the amount of venom and rage shot his way.
I personally not equating this piece
with anything regarding my wife or mother.
I AM, however, tired of people feeling the need to resort to cherry-picking to make conclusions that have been patently obvious for more than 18 years.
It’s like pointing at a fat kid and saying “Ha ha! You’re fat!” Pointless.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 18, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
But there is no attack
there is no punchline, it’s just sadism.
And the title is pretty clear so everyone getting worked up could have just never clicked through. I’m still working up the nerve to read that 400 comment Maholm thread from last week.
I'm still trying to find the time
I keep thinking it’ll eventually just magically appear…
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
jeff passan
i see you finally did SOME work on writing about the pirates. i printed your article, cut the responses off the end. i then took a walk in the woods. i found a young sappling and defacated. i then used your words to wipe my ass. why in the woods you ask? your work does not belong in my sewer. my flushables would get slowed down by this pathetic, cherry picked sludge.
by karreemofwheat on Jan 18, 2012 10:51 AM EST reply actions
be a man instead of a faceless troll
list your email address. another internet tough guy.
by karreemofwheat on Jan 18, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
oh jeffery not to pile on though you sure do;
while attending syracuse, you were an assistant ballboy under coach bernie fine.
by karreemofwheat on Jan 18, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
He gets hit a lot?!
Why is Carlos Quentin a legend ? He gets hit. A lot. Over the last two seasons, Quentin was hit 43 times.
Hell, back in the days before sabremetrics, there was some Montreal Expos guy who got hit 43 times in one seaons. But I’ve been painting for the last three days, and I’m a’drinkin’ tonight, so y’all will just have to figure that one out on your own. But Ron Hunt got hit 43 times in a month. Players are wimps these days, I tell ya…..
Welcome to the new dark ages.....
Ron Hunt
Led the NL in HBP 7 YEARS RUNNING.
243 times in his career, enough for 6th overall All-Time.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 18, 2012 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
You're welcome.

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Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 18, 2012 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
McB has been pounded so deep into the ground
he reminds me of that character in the movie Jeremiah Johnson who the Indians buried neck-deep in the ground and left without even a hat.
Maybe a lot of it’s deserved. Hard to tell without comparing other teams’ draft records. On the other hand, it seems to go along, at least superficially, with the idea that the Pirates have by and large gotten the short end of the deal in trades with other teams, e.g., the Bay trade. It’s a mixed bag, to be sure. There have been successes, just not enough of them.
Then there’s the Bucs’ record of evaluating and finding playing time for players they do have in their system, e.g., Joey Bats and Craig Wilson.
Some other teams in our same general financial boat often seem somehow to come up with more desirable prospects and players, e,g., Tampa Bay, Minnesota, Florida Marlins, KC Royals.
There are lots of different factors operating here and probably just as many different strategies for player evaluation, acquisition and development. Probably, someone has written a book on this subject ;)) Since I tend to go along with Branch Rickey’s saying: “Luck is the residue of design,” I wonder whether there isn’t something missing in the Pirates’ approach to scouting, evaluation, acquisition and development that can be explained by something other than reference to the rich team-poor team imbalance that MLB refuses to address. I seem to remember WTM taking a shot at this sometime last season.
Lino Donoso
nothing wrong with this
My criticism isn’t that the Pirates have drafted well — no one would claim that — but that he didn’t try to do an apples-to-apples correspond with other teams’ draft records. His method basically puts the Pirates against the best of every other team’s selections, and no team is going to win a comparison like that.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Jan 19, 2012 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
yes, you are right
but judging by the tone of the post, its more of an attempt at humor at the pirates ineptness over the last decade than an actual comparison piece.
the mistake he made was posting it on a knowledgable pirate site instead of a general baseball blog.
by white angus on Jan 19, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
that character in the movie Jeremiah Johnson who the Indians buried neck-deep in the ground and left without even a hat
If you’re interested in knowing more about the real-life Liver-Eating Johnson (and you should be), this is a pretty good biography. Good beach reading – quick read, not too heavy, and lots of batshit crazy anecdotes.
I've GOT to know more about Liver-Eating Johnson
Wish we had someone on the Pirates by that name. I envision someone with a curve that would make strong men’s knees buckle; the look of a Sal The Barber Maglie, and the aggressive competitiveness of Bob Gibson.
Thanks, Vlad!
Lino Donoso
I'm not sure why NH is featured so prominently, but I recommended the article anyway
for the trivia, the gratuitous F-bombs, and for making me LOL
Weeeeee baseball!
I could feel his muscle tissues collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm. ~~ Mike Tyson
19 yrs of losing
now i see why
"please buy the team mr. cuban"
maybe
we can let Huntington’s guys reach the age of 25 before adding him to this piece. we all know why the organization was how it was. if Alvarez tanks this year , Sanchez breaks the other side of his face, Taillon rips a groin muscle and Cole gets caught with a bag of weed then you can put NH ’s photo on there
glad they didnt pass on Sanchez in ’09 in favor of Matthew Hobgood the #5 pick
by patient pirate on Jan 19, 2012 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
what do you call a marijuana farm in western pennsylvania?
Lambo Fields
by white angus on Jan 20, 2012 8:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

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