Brandon Allen..worth a shot?

by patient pirate on Jan 19, 2012 6:15 PM EST

Oakland's Allen looks to be the odd man out and according to industry sources , is being shopped with the Pirates on the short list. He'll be 26 with little success in the bigs with a .210/.297/.383 line (others -Alvarez- have been called busts for this). would he just be a cheaper GI Jones? I think he's worth a shot because we know what the upside of everyone else is already. What does the BD fam think?

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I like him

Power n plate discipline baby.

by buccobat on Jan 19, 2012 6:24 PM EST via mobile reply actions

How’s he the odd man out? He’s probably going to start at DH for them.

No jinx no jinx no jinx.

by Suffering Buc on Jan 19, 2012 6:47 PM EST reply actions

he's on the market..

odd man out in that they’ll go with Chris Carter and he has more value than someone like Kila..so he is the one they are shopping

by patient pirate on Jan 19, 2012 9:10 PM EST up reply actions

Maybe. But Allen probably has more upside than trade value, and he’s under team control for a while to come. I’m not saying he won’t be moved, but it’s not like he’d come bargain basement. He’s a fairly interesting player; be sure Beane recognizes that.

No jinx no jinx no jinx.

by Suffering Buc on Jan 20, 2012 12:46 AM EST up reply actions

FWIW

Here’s the MLBTR post about Allen, based on a tweet by Jerry Crasnick that the A’s are shopping him. Ben Nicholson-Smith suggests the Rays, Indians, Pirates, and Brewers as logical trading partners.

The A’s got him for Brad Ziegler, who looks like a good middle reliever — and how on earth do you get 3.2 bbWAR in less than 60 innings?

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Jan 20, 2012 9:19 AM EST up reply actions

I think he would be worth a shot if we could get him cheaply.

by Brakeman8 on Jan 19, 2012 6:49 PM EST reply actions

He'd have to be pretty cheap.

Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained

by Kosstic518 on Jan 19, 2012 10:19 PM EST via mobile reply actions

maybe Bryan Morris

by patient pirate on Jan 19, 2012 10:45 PM EST up reply actions

i'd probably do it

by BurgherKing on Jan 20, 2012 2:39 AM EST up reply actions

I would do it for Morris 1 v

Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained

by Kosstic518 on Jan 20, 2012 6:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

1 for 1

Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained

by Kosstic518 on Jan 20, 2012 6:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

but Beane wouldnt

by white angus on Jan 20, 2012 8:36 AM EST up reply actions

Absolutely not. I'd be willing to give a bit more than Morris, but I wouldn't give a ton.

Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained

by Kosstic518 on Jan 20, 2012 9:04 AM EST up reply actions

including jones would be smart

and Jones should have AL appeal because of versatility and ability to hit RH pitching.

by Mingy on Jan 20, 2012 9:49 AM EST up reply actions

yep. plus we gotta get the payroll down. way too high and its not even February yet.

by white angus on Jan 20, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions

If they have a logjam at 1b

not sure where Jones would fit, getting rid of one DH for another platoon DH/1b/RF doesn’t seem to make sense to me.

by Wizard of Woz on Jan 20, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions

I like him a lot.

Much better option than some of the names that have been getting tossed around this offseason (coughTRUMBOcough).

Probably won’t ever hit for much average (though I expect the Ks to come down a bit as he gets more experience), but he’s got big-time power and enough of a batting eye that you can maybe project a tolerable OBP at some point in the future. His homers aren’t cheap – he’d pull a few balls into the river if we picked him up.

by Vlad on Jan 19, 2012 11:00 PM EST reply actions

His homers aren’t cheap – he’d pull a few balls into the river if we picked him up.

Seriously, click the link.

Something like that, if it doesn’t give you a few chills as a fan, you’re just dead inside and that’s all there is to it.

by Vlad on Jan 19, 2012 11:02 PM EST up reply actions

He can go opposite field, too.

by Vlad on Jan 19, 2012 11:03 PM EST up reply actions

Can’t forget this one, either…

by Vlad on Jan 19, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions

Clement went opposite field once...

and it surprised him as much as it did everyone else. It was in Houston, Clement looked like he thought he popped it up then took off running when he finally found sight of it.

by white angus on Jan 20, 2012 8:37 AM EST up reply actions

wow

that first one was rediculous…that may have landed on the Point.

Vlad, I do believe that Allen’s name was also brought up around the trade deadline…right before he was actually dealt to Oakland.

As long as the price is right, I think adding him to the mix would be a plus.

by insane_sanity on Jan 20, 2012 6:17 AM EST up reply actions

would have to deal from some depth... Jones probably?

by white angus on Jan 20, 2012 8:38 AM EST up reply actions

I don’t think the A’s would want Jones – the whole reason they’re thinking about dealing Allen is that they have too many 1B/OF types.

Maybe an arm?

by Vlad on Jan 20, 2012 9:10 AM EST up reply actions

seems like the real crowd is at 1B/DH

MLBTR mentions Kila, Daric Barton, and Chris Carter — I think Carter is the only one of those guys who can really play outfield, isn’t he?

Still, the A’s won’t want Jones. They just traded for Seth Smith, who has some very similar numbers to Jones with probably better defense — he and Jones have the exact same wRC+ against righties, and Smith is even worse against lefties. And they’re going to sign Jonny Gomes as OF depth.

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Jan 20, 2012 9:26 AM EST up reply actions

I think Carter is the only one of those guys who can really play outfield, isn’t he?

Allen has a little experience there, too, and he’s athletic enough you could probably get away with it. They’ve also got Michael Taylor (and maybe Adrian Cardenas) in the corner OF mix at AAA. And they just sold Jai Miller to the Orioles because they had nowhere to put him.

by Vlad on Jan 20, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions

oh, i didnt mean trading Jones for Allen, I'm saying that the pirates would have to get make some space for Allen

adding Allen to the 1B list we have is just like the A’s adding Jones to theirs

by white angus on Jan 20, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions

another random thought

dont you guys think that the Detroit Tigers might be a perfect trading partner for Garrett Jones? With VMart going down for the forseeable future – Jones could provide DH for them and then eventually transition to RF where Donnie Freaking Kelley holds it down.

I’m almost thinking three-way trade here! (why don’t more of those happen!)

by Mingy on Jan 20, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions

because our last 3 way trade went so marvelously why, i guess

by white angus on Jan 20, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions

I was thinking...

that D. Lee would be an interesting fit in Detroit.

by insane_sanity on Jan 21, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions

Another thing that augurs well for Allen:

He hit six home runs in the majors last year. They came against (in order) Hiroki Kuroda, Yovani Gallardo, Mat Latos, Bartolo Colon, Hector Noesi, and Jon Lester.

Kuroda, Gallardo, Latos, and Lester are front-of-the-rotation types, and even at Colon’s age, he’s no slouch. Allen wasn’t just beating up meatballs from green September arms. The fact that he can see good pitches from good pitchers and drive them out of the park is a very encouraging sign.

by Vlad on Jan 19, 2012 11:16 PM EST reply actions

yeah you know what

The more i inspect the more i like him too. Apparently the glove is good too according to fangraphs looking at his defensive stats. In his last three stints in AAA Allen has OPS’d over 900 each time. The only problem i could forsee with this is ‘what do we do with Jones’ if the A’s won’t take him.

by Mingy on Jan 20, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions

Manchild hasn't signed yet.

He and McGehee are the two remaining.

So….

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

Follow @cocktailsfor2

by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 20, 2012 10:14 AM EST up reply actions

Seems like you could just use Jones as the fourth OF and push McLouth down to fifth OF (or have Jones back up the corner spots and McLouth CF).

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Jan 20, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions

you could

that would kind of push Nick Evans out though which i don’t want to happen. Jones makes sense for a lot of AL teams IMO especially the DETROIT TIGERS as noted in my above post.

by Mingy on Jan 20, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions

i could see that

whom would you want from the Tigers?

by white angus on Jan 20, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions

do they have any 1B prospects?

that are kinda blocked by Cabrera or anything? I actually propose three way trade though we get B allen Detroit gets Jones Plus C+ prospect from us and A’s get better prospect from Detroit! bam! make me GM

by Mingy on Jan 20, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions

Westlake

is their best 1B prospect, but he was drafted this year so can’t be traded yet (I’m not sure when he signed for PTBNL purposes) but I’m also not sure he’d be a better option than Dickerson and I don’t think he is any closer to the majors.

by KentuckyPirate on Jan 20, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions

Westlake was available when we picked Dickerson,,,

,,,so evidently, of the two our front office prefers Dickerson.

(FWIW, I like Westlake a lot.)

by Vlad on Jan 20, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions

thanks for the research

I guess i should have clarified i meant someone much closer to majors or at ML level already just dangling in AAA. I LOVE dickerson but it’s going to be a few years till he’s ready, would be cool to get someone exactly like Brandon Allen who’s ready now and could prove to be good

by Mingy on Jan 20, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions

Apparently the glove is good too according to fangraphs looking at his defensive stats.

Visually, I think the glove looks pretty good, too. There are a lot of nice reaction plays on his showreel at MLB.com.

A couple years ago, Allen was seen as a future DH, but he’s really put in a lot of work since then.

by Vlad on Jan 20, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions

Hell, I say go for it

Allen is still young, he’s under control until after 2017, he walks, he has amazing power, he’s left handed and he might even be decent defensively at 1B (5.1 UZR/150 in SSS in 2011). Yeah, his K% scares me a bit but I think he’s young enough to bring that down a little. Also guys that walk like he does and can hit 25-30 HR are allowed to K more than others. FWIW, Bill James pegs him for 22 HRs and a .334 wOBA in 2012 which would make him more valuable than GFJ anyway. Maybe he doesn’t put it all together, but if he does (or even comes close) then he could be a steal. More than that, I don’t think giving him ABs over Jones would be what knocks the Pirates out of contention this year anyway. Give me Allen (in a reasonable trade), Soler and…ugh…Francis (?) and I’ll be pretty stoked going into Spring Training.

by KentuckyPirate on Jan 19, 2012 11:59 PM EST reply actions

I agree with kentuckypirate. I’ve never really liked Allen as a prospect, but a team in Pittsburgh’s situation should definitely give him a shot. Allen’s got big-time power, he’s left-handed and he’ll be cheap in his peak 26-to-28 seasons. Also, I doubt Neal would have to give up a top prospect in return.

by bolton on Jan 20, 2012 12:35 AM EST up reply actions

Opportunities to get guys like Allen..

are the reason we stockpile picks. Someone above suggested Morris, but that’s probably too low…

However, I think a package like Morris/Gorkys would be really difficult for the A’s to pass on, particularly with Beane’s affinity for defensive outfielders.

by jlk9697 on Jan 20, 2012 10:31 AM EST reply actions

*stockpile prospects

by jlk9697 on Jan 20, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions

except that both Morris and Gorky's are on the 40 man

which means Beane might have to move at least one guy off of his roster to do so.

by white angus on Jan 20, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions

i'd possibly try to offer:

Mercer and Morris/Moskos… wonder if that’s good enough?

by white angus on Jan 20, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions

then I would check with the Rays/Indians/Mariners type of teams to see what we could get for Jones

by white angus on Jan 20, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions

Jones to the Rays for McGee and ptbnl?

mcgee could be a great 8th inning guy if Hanny is dealt.

by white angus on Jan 20, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions

Detroit may also be a good landing spot for him

by Wizard of Woz on Jan 20, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions

I would take Jones over Damon

that’s for sure. Especially if platooned correctly

by Wizard of Woz on Jan 20, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions

whom could the Bucs get back in return?

by white angus on Jan 20, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions

Morris alone should be sufficient. I know the BD community is down on him, but he’s a top 15 prospect according to both Sickels and Goldstein. If we’re paying more than that for Brandon Allen (who the A’s got for Brad Ziegler), we’re doing something wrong. Morris alone might actually be too much, depending on whether you think his stuff is good enough to close eventually (I do.) I like Allen, and I think he’s a good trade target for us, but he shouldn’t be very expensive at all.

by epoc on Jan 20, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions

if Morris were still a starting pitcher, maybe

by white angus on Jan 20, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions

right

Cuz Brad Ziegler is starting games for the DBacks now . . .

by epoc on Jan 21, 2012 12:08 AM EST up reply actions

just stop

comparing morris to ziegler??? ziegler is an experienced veteran and morris is a former top prospect who not only got moved to the pen but hasnt even played in AAA.

morris aint enough, pahd’nah

by white angus on Jan 21, 2012 8:12 AM EST up reply actions

I'm not so sure for a couple of reasons

First of all, Ziegler is more expensive as he will hit arbitration this year (he may have signed already, I don’t feel like looking it up) and has only 3 years of control left. Also the D-Backs didn’t land Ziegler for Allen straight up, they got Jordan Norberto, a young, hard throwing pitcher (even if he’s been lousy in the bigs, he’s put up great MiLB K numbers) so Allen was seen as less valuable than Ziegler straight up. Finally, even if it’s taken as a given that Allen WAS equal to Ziegler in value, that doesn’t mean he still is. When the A’s got him he had an .834 OPS in (admittedly in an extremely SSS and with a meager .172 AVG) and he was coming off a year with a .793 OPS (again in a SSS). Then he went to Oakland and struggled. It’s quite possible that Allen’s value has dropped since the A’s acquired him.

by KentuckyPirate on Jan 21, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions

Typo

*Also the D-Backs didn’t land Ziegler for Allen straight up, they got Jordan Norberto

They traded Norberto with Allen, they didn’t get him with Ziegler

by KentuckyPirate on Jan 21, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions

exactly

But in addition to the things you point out, saying that Ziegler is a veteran and Morris is a prospect really sells the comparison short. Ziegler’s a 31-year-old middle reliever who cannot get lefties out. He has MLB value, but not that much of it. Morris’s value, as a C+ prospect who’s relatively close to the majors and projects as a late-inning reliever, is perfectly comparable. I like Morris better, personally, but a lot will depend on what the A’s are looking for.

If Morris ain’t enough, then we just don’t trade for Allen. Simple as that. He’s not worth Morris-plus.

by epoc on Jan 21, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions

opinions vary, i guess

the truth could be that you dont want to give up anything of value at all for allen, and you dont really value Morris. which is fine, because Morris’ status as a prospect pretty much ended with his move to the pen. he still could have a long career in the majors, but if you had to make a bet on whom would have more impact in MLB between allen and morris, you go with allen.

by white angus on Jan 22, 2012 8:32 AM EST up reply actions