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Color me skeptical, the sad story of Oswalt, Burnett and GFJ

The Pirates have not had a very good track record in terms of developing talent. I can attribute this to several possible factors:

1. There has been no talent to develop
2. They’ve been unfortunate with injuries
3. Their player development philosophy is poor
4. They don’t coaches and staff that excel in teaching and motivating young talent

Assign blame wherever you like, the fact of the matter remains that it seems like we don’t do much with the little talent we have. Furthermore, no organization bats 1.000 with their top prospects. If you take Keith Law’s top 100 prospect list you can be sure that a minority of them will have significant impacts on their organizations. It’s foolhardy to presume that we’ll have significantly different results in developing talent than the rest of the league. It’s foolhardy to think that we’ll have significantly different success rates than we have in the past.

We get so excited about the success of Jeff Karstens’ success. His breakout campaign (arguably unsustainable) gave him a WAR of 3.0. Which for a low-paid pitcher is okay, but considering he’s at best a 4/5 starter this is hardly reason to start making october playoff reservations.

On offense we have one player that is significantly above average (WAR) from last year, Andrew McCutcheon (5.5). After that we have Neil Walker at (2.5 WAR) who is just marginally better than league average – at least he didn’t have the precipitous dropoff of Karstens and we can assign some confidence that he’ll continue to be a league average player. Everyone else was well below league average.

Now these three players are all performing above their contracts and therefore this would give just about any organization some flexibility to invest in free agents to improve the quality of roster. But we’re not going to bring in ANY difference makers via free agency because: a. we don’t try to bring in players that would make a difference at PNC; and b. they don’t want to come here anyhow.

Now I agree that Prince Fielder isn’t going to work for PBC because we can’t afford his salary and also, we need to invest all we can into amateur talent. But players like Oswalt and Jackson would serve the bucs immeasurably. First by bringing out baseball fans that on occasion deserve a little better than a AAAA ballclub. Second by bringing guys that have succeeded before that can teach the rest of the team how to do it (Oswalt in particular). And most importantly by growing the farm system – because come July Oswalt will look VERY attractive to several teams vying for contention or experiencing an injury to a SP. At that point in time, we’d be able to pick one or two high-grade prospects to add to our stable of cheap talent that hints at the potential future of multiple all-stars and post-season glory (dovetails nicely with PBCs “plan”).

And that brings me to AJ Burnett, he of dynamite stuff and dolomite brain. He’ll challenge Morton and McDonald for the guy with the most electric stuff that can’t seem to keep it together for 3 consecutive starts. Or most 5 inning 110 pitch outings. Burnett is certainly a decent ML pitcher but carries a prohibitive pricetag. According to the latest reports, Pittsburgh could be a destination for Burnett (exciting tattoo parlors on the southside) with the NY Yankees eating significant portion of his cumbersome salary. The sticky wicket in the deal is the Pirates reluctance to include Garrett Jones in the deal. Now I like Garrett Jones and he fits the mold of Pirates 1b/RF combo talent with guys that can certainly hit the long ball (chicks dig the long ball) if and when they connect. GFJ is serviceable in either position but he’s never going to be confused with Keith Hernandez at 1b (I’m Keith Hernandez) or Roberto Clemente in right – wow that sounds blasphemous. In any event, Jones is a 1.2 WAR and not someone that appears to have the skillset to become much more than a league average player. I mean when have the bucs ever given up on a player and he turned into a great player (besides one of the most feared sluggers in the American League Jose Buatista). Seriously, how can they hold the deal up for GFJ?

I don’t enjoy it, but this all points to the continued and long term futility of the PBC. And before anyone can reply, yes, sale the team.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

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your statement of “I mean when have the bucs ever given up on a player and he turned into a great player (besides one of the most feared sluggers in the American League Jose Buatista). Seriously, how can they hold the deal up for GFJ?”

this is what I think is going to most likely happen. once he would become their DH in yankee-land, hes gunna become a routine 20+ HR hitter and pirate fans will end up being furious at Bucco Management because they traded him away. this sounds alot like Jose Bautista 2.0 all over again because both of their HR numbers as Pirates are VERY SIMILAR and both of them played 3 full seasons as pirates too. people all over here and through the media are just saying hes just an average “replacement player” and or “just a platoon player” on the downside of his career and on the wrong side on 30 years old. but consider the fact thats hes hit 21, 21, and 16 HRs in his career and would be going to a significantly shorter porch in RF at Yankee Stadium where hes a dead pull hitter. his career #s against Central teams is pathetic other than against the red sox….2HRs and .333 avg. i can almost guarantee if the pirates gave him the 1st baseman job for the ENTIRE YEAR, facing lefties and all, he’d be the 20+ HR hitter they most certainly need from the 1B position. if he goes to the yanks, watch what i said end up happening spot on. surrounded by the likes of granderson, arod, texiera, swisher, ajnd russell martin he would get the best pitchers to hit out of the lineup too

by rinsana11 on Feb 10, 2012 10:33 AM EST reply actions  

I understand the concern about Joey Bats

because it’s happened before, but (1) that was a completely unprecedented turn around that has not really happened at any other point in the history of baseball so to think it’s going to happen twice in a five year span to the same team-even one as seemingly snakebitten as the Pirates-is highly unlikely, and (2) Bautista and Jones are two completely different players. Bautista was always considered a talented guy. People often raved about his tools even when he wasn’t living up to them at the major league level. Jones simply doesn’t have many tools. He is purely a pull hitting power guy who can’t hit LH pitching. There’s also the age factor to consider. Bautista was traded at 27 and became a star at 29. Jones is going to be 31 this season. We know what he is and we know what he isn’t. He’s a decent player and he’s somebody who could help a contender in the right role. He’s not somebody that should be the holdup on a deal that the Pirates think can help their ML roster.*

*The question is how much do the Pirates think Burnett can help that roster and how much he would cost them after the Yankee’s contribution.

by KentuckyPirate on Feb 10, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

agree

and I’m still burned up that Jose Castillo never turned into the player we thought he was capable of becoming.

by lloyd95 on Feb 10, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

should have used sarcastica font...

I was certainly not serious about gfj turning into mickey mantle

by lloyd95 on Feb 10, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Please spell our CFs name correctly.

Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained

by Kosstic518 on Feb 10, 2012 11:47 AM EST reply actions  

As soon as I saw that, I quit reading. I have a difficult time respecting the opinion of someone who can’t correctly spell the name of the best player on the team.

by thecheeseisblue on Feb 10, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

too bad, I really got rolling at the end there.

by lloyd95 on Feb 10, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

You're right

Spelling is important and I should know better. Would it help if I threw in a John Wesley Van Benschoten reference?

by lloyd95 on Feb 10, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Please use apostrophes...

or stop being a jag off about trivial BS.

Put on your dancin' shoes.

by PensFan024 on Feb 12, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm on the fence with Burnett

He is a head case. Pitching in front of 55,000 fans and going to PNC should relax him. Might light a fire under his ass. Could be trade bait come July. Yet if we have to part with Jones I would be okay with this as long as we went after someone like Butler from KC. I would rather have a .300 hitter behind all the front of the lineup speed than a guy with power potential and a strikeout victim every 4 at bats. That’s what Pedro’s for.

by georgesar on Feb 10, 2012 1:42 PM EST reply actions  

It would take

a king’s ransom to get Butler. Clint Robinson is possible, though

by KentuckyPirate on Feb 11, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

It doesn't seem to matter how many times it's said that Oswalt will NEVER EVER EVER EVER come to the Pirates,

people keep posting it.

Criminy.

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 10, 2012 2:15 PM EST reply actions  

never say never

or for that matter “NEVER EVER EVER EVER”

by lloyd95 on Feb 10, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

No.

Never gonna happen.

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 10, 2012 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

There’s only third person in all of sports and that is Mr Rickey Henderson. "Listen, people are always saying, ‘Rickey says Rickey.’ But it’s been blown way out of proportion. People might catch me, when they know I’m ticked off, saying, ‘Rickey, what the heck are you doing, Rickey?’ They say, ‘Darn, Rickey, what are you saying Rickey for? Why don’t you just say, ‘I?’ But I never did. I always said, ‘Rickey,’ and it became something for people to joke about."

by lloyd95 on Feb 10, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

despite what our young friend says about your spelling.

i think you usually do intelligent, well thought out posts. its pre spring, ya got months to warm up.

by karreemofwheat on Feb 10, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn’t harrass or razz lloyd95, he has a short fuse.

by lloyd95 on Feb 10, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

sorry the correct answer is "what is: he has a short fuse"

Anna and I are no longer on speaking terms since that thing happened and then there was that other thing. it was good while it lasted, but we all can learn from the experience. never date crazy. never ever ever ever.

by lloyd95 on Feb 10, 2012 10:11 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

If you guys try to limit yourselves to dating only non-crazy women...

You’ll be lonely, and frequently dateless. They’re pretty much all crazy, in one way or another.

by Midnight Moose on Feb 11, 2012 1:10 AM EST up reply actions  

There are very few things I know for certain, but “bitches is crazy” is one of them.

Put on your dancin' shoes.

by PensFan024 on Feb 12, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

SALE Jones?

Not sure what you mean by " SALE the team." Do you mean that the PIRATES should SAIL to victory? or that Nuttting should sell the team to someone else? Besides that, if they let Jones go, where do they get another average major league talent? They have only about six or seven of these.

by blackmax on Feb 15, 2012 9:10 AM EST reply actions  

its always amusing to see new or infrequent posters

be stumped by the usage of sale-ing!

it’s a BD meme of sorts, I guess, thanks to one sweetleb.

by BurgherKing on Feb 15, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

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