Yankees Want 'Ok Prospect,' Want Pirates To Take On More Than $10 Million Salary In A.J. Burnett Deal
by Charlie Wilmoth on Feb 10, 2012 4:40 PM EST
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PrintMore on the potential A.J. Burnett trade, from Jon Heyman:
word is, #pirates willing to pay $10M of aj's $33M. #yankees have been pushing for something closer to a 50-50 split ...
#yanks also seek ok prospect back, which pirates hadnt agreed to. still, despite the differences, decent chance to happen
We'll see what "ok prospect" means. If it's an Aaron Baker or Brooks Pounders type of prospect, that's fine with me. Also, expecting the Pirates to take on $16.5 million for a player with Burnett's current trade value is quite a lot. $10 million is reasonable.
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I really could see d'Arnaud going..
…he pretty much defines the term “ok prospect.”
Besides, with Barmes, Navarro, Nunez & Mercer knocking around the bigs/AAA, he’s been made pretty much superfluous I would think.
Jose Tabata is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
d'Arnaud isn't going anywhere.
Management seems high on him, where as Mercer isn’t as defensively sound, and there are a few similar type SS in the lower levels.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
what about Brock Holt?
we do have about 54 INFs in the upper levels.
I think Holt's better than Mercer.
Strictly my opinion though.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
Hmm
The knock on Mercer is contact. I’ve seen nothing to indicate that he’s not a very capable SS. None of those lower level players have shown the kind of power he has. If I may quote John Sickels
Hit 19 homers and 30 doubles in Double-A/Triple-A. Defense at shortstop is solid and he can also play third and second with skill. Age (25) and shaky plate discipline hold back his grade, but with some adjustments he could be a surprise major league contributor this year. Keep an eye on him.
Viva Clemente!
It's my understanding that d'Arnaud is better defensively.
That said, it’s a frightening thing to think.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
Mercer has been touted
as being the closest defensively out of the upper level guys
by patient pirate on Feb 10, 2012 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
Well then shit, I'm wrong.
If that’s the case, hold onto him. We have enough hit for average guys in the OF with little pop. Keep the SS that can do it.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
almost everyone on here says that the pirates should only give up a "meh" prospect in this deal...
well, judging by the top prospects lists that have come out, Mercer is “meh”
When I think meh, I think Lambo.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
Hiiiiyooooo.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
Could be he's 25.
I mean 25 is still young, but 25 sounds a hell of a lot older than 23 or 24.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
As someone about to turn 25, I hate being called old already. But I have noticed that 21 and 22 year olds have become a bit more annoying. Even at parties.
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto
by blackjackfishtaco on Feb 10, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
when my son was a jr in college
he told me how sad he felt for the frat guys who’d graduated who came back for parties. he’s 28 now and he’s never set foot back on the campus where he was a pretty good a-t-a-lete (well, if you consider track being athletic)
I told him to wait til he was rooting for pro players younger than him. We just re-hashed that convo a week ago during superbowl weekend. Getting older is a beyotch for everyone, not just for us 61-year-young’uns (h/t bob prince).
Yep
25 is ooooold. Probably needs a hearing aid.
Mercer is so old, his Little League Coach was Honus Wagner.
He’s so old, he used to play rock paper scissors with 3 Finger Brown.
Old Hoss Radbourn calls him Gramps.
3 Finger Brown was crap at Rock Paper Scissors
He could only ever do “scissors.”
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 10, 2012 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I wish I was 25
especially when i’m stuck in a college town for probably the rest of my life lol
one mans trash is another mans treasure.
we are short on ss, thus we value him higher.
by karreemofwheat on Feb 10, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
not good enough reason
that would mean that eric fryer is off limits because we’re not exactly swimming in catching prospects
after last year it might,
course we signed all kinds of catchers, including matt pagnozzi.
by karreemofwheat on Feb 10, 2012 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
I'd say 'wait'
The more the Bucs delay on this the better. The Yanks appear a bit desperate here ; I guess no other teams showing interest
" I think this is probably the best team ever assembled. They talk about the Vince Lombardi Era, but I think the Chuck Noll Era is even greater. " - Mel Blount
by michaelbro8 on Feb 10, 2012 4:51 PM EST via mobile reply actions
If Cashman offers one penny less than $25MM...
….then, to me, he has to settle for a Victor Black/Andrew Lambo-esque busted prospect.
If they’ll go $25MM+, then they can get a Tyler Glasnow/Evan Chambers type.
Jose Tabata is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
Maybe the best way of putting it.
No jinx no jinx no jinx.
by Suffering Buc on Feb 10, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
I have better odds with my lotto ticket as
the Yankees have with getting this.
I could feel his muscle tissues collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm. ~~ Mike Tyson
i would go $12 if ...
they also gave us Brandon Laird
Rudy Owens??
He has put up good numbers up until last year but I don’t see much of a future with him for the Pirates. He might be valued enough that we could get burnett for around 5 million a year. I am not worried too much about the prospect we turn over to the Yankees. We wont give them a top ten prospect and after that we have so much pitching depth it would be fine to give up some. Also after our top ten, we don’t have a ton of position players that would mean too much if they left. If I were NH I would go to them with 4 or 5 guys with different numbers attached to them. Jeff Locke and you guys pay the full salary. Rudy Owens and you pay 23 million. Bryan Morris and you pay 22 million. Andrew Lambo and you pay 20 million. Not saying something along those lines and let the Yankees decide what they want and get the deal done.
dont know how the “not saying” got in there
by sidbreamslegs on Feb 10, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Rudy is too much imo.
No need to give up more than a C- prospect. If the Pirates absorb $10 million, then I look at the trade this way: Pirates receive Burnett and the Yankees receive C- prospect plus the player they acquire with the $10 million saved (hypothetically someone like Oswalt).
If you would have approached me in even 2009....
and told me that a Pirates roster would sport D.Lee, Correia, Jones, and Ludwick, I may have peed.
That might be the best “What have you done for me lately?” example I can think of…other that what the Yankees roster might look like this summer.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
give them Lambo and Owens ..
we pay 10mil and get Laird
then..
we send Jones to Philly for Blanton and 5mil
by patient pirate on Feb 10, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
according to MLBTR
Yanks are saying that absorbing $10M isnt enough. Not sure if that’s with or without a prospect. I think I’d go as high as 12M, and give a C- prospect (maybe Cardenas, the guy we got in the Diaz trade, or the aforementioned Baker for Warren swap)
But that’s about as high as I’d go.
in the 300+ thread someone mentioned the luxury tax and consecutive years.
could this be why?
by karreemofwheat on Feb 10, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
could be
i dont know the exact rules pertaining to those or the Yanks current situation, so someone would have to break it down for me, but I’d have expected to hear about it by now if that were it.
Been Reading your comments,
As most of you know, the luxury tax threshold will increase in the near future, but any team that is able to get under the 189 million mark from 2014-2016, the yankees will not only not have to pay the luxury tax but will also get what is essentially a refund of $40 million dollars due to the CBA’s new market disqualification revenue sharing program.
Burnett’s contract runs out after the 2013 season, so the Yanks don’t need to trade him, but they do want to get rid of him because he’s taking up a valuable roster spot , is complicating the 5th starter situation and hasn’t been very productive the past two seasons.
PS
Its very, very, very unlikely NY is going to toss in anyone from their top 30 just to get rid of Burnett.
i dont recall anyone
who gave up a prospect to get rid of someone… those just don’t happen…
and yeah, as i posted below, i m sure the Yankees can afford a bit of a financial hit, if need be.
by BurgherKing on Feb 10, 2012 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
whats the harm in giving up a prospect slightly better? chances are they wont amount to regular big leaguers anyway
like a mercer, a holt, a ferrell… maybe even a Curry?
Why is this even under consideration. 1.2 WAR pitcher for over ten million plus a prospect? I think we already had that in Maholm – who was about double the WAR.
maybe because Burnett has literally earned twice the, i cant believe im saying this, WAR than maholm has earned
and is only two years removed from being a very good and reliable pitcher
by white angus on Feb 10, 2012 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But white angus, just because he’s earned twice the WAR in his longer career, doesn’t mean that’s what he’s going to produce going forward. Maholm out-war’d Burrnett (4.1 to 2.9) the last two years, which would probably be an important indicator for an aging pitcher in a possible decline. I think that is pretty obvious.
Gotta love the K/9 though.
10 million
is a steal for Burnett…I would do 12…I don’t get the cause for consideration. At this point just throw them 12 million and a C- prospect and improve your team for 2012. Very good chance Burnett bounces back close to 3 WAR IMO. I see nothing to lose here besides a low prospect.
agreed
should be noted though that we have all the leverage. NH needs to do his job and get them down as low as possible. The Yanks basically HAVE to do this at this point. Probably reason why NH more than likely leaked news that we’re looking at Blanton and Lannan (which we’re prob not) too
the point isn’t to get a fair deal. WE WANT TO RIP THEM OFF
by Mingy on Feb 10, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
I’m kind of waiting for some “mystery team” to sweep in and snatch him out from under us. A lifetime as a Pirates fan will make you think this way.
by SLR on Feb 10, 2012 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
"should be noted though that we have all the leverage"
The fact that these words are being uttered in reference to the Pirates FO should make everyone a little nervous.
Jake at NewBucs is for this trade. Hell froze over.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
the best part
Jake suggests we trade Pounders as well in order to pick up another player or so. Jake obviously has no clue what is happening considering we already traded Pounders.
Haha
by Cainyoudigit on Feb 10, 2012 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
I noticed that too.
I didn’t wanna bash the guy too much in one post.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
You don’t really need to bash him. Just repeat what he says. This shit writes itself.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
I'm waiting until he starts spewing out movie plots.
“Pedro won’t field any ball hit to him when Hanrahan’s on the mound because Hanny’s been sleeping with his wife.”
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
Why not?
He’s a maroon.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 10, 2012 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
i will say this for him
even though i read neither, Jake is significantly more entertainment value than Smizik. The commenters on his thing were probably the same as Smizik’s though.
I made the mistake of reading Smizik today
I 1-rated that creppy bastard and felt good doin it.
so the Yankees want an "OK" prospect ...
do the Pirates even have any prospects from Oklahoma? :confused:
by gonfalon on Feb 10, 2012 6:29 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
The potential of AJ
There seems to be a lot of people in favor of getting Burnett, but there is still a group of people out there saying things like we could have just had Maholm. Look at just a couple of important stats that could indicate what we would be getting. First off in AJs three "down seasons with the Yankees… he still had a lower BA against than Maholm in every year. He absolutely murders him in Ks and K/9. While his walks are a bit higher, if you move him to the NL central…. put him in a pitcher friendly PNC and let him face a pitcher. He could easily put up a sub 4 ERA and 200 Ks. Making him the best pitcher the Pirates have had in a long time. This is not an unrealistic assumption, so to squabble over a couple million or a prospect seems silly. He still is throwing in the mid 90’s, his Ks increased last year and the guy could strive in a small media city.
I can't believe it took this long
“Yankees Want ‘Ok Prospect,’ Want Pirates To Take On More Than $10 Million Salary In A.J. Burnett Deal”
“Brian, you can have my answer now, if you like. My offer is this: nothing. Not even the fee for the wife’s limousine, which I would appreciate if you would put up, personally.”
by JRoth95 on Feb 10, 2012 8:45 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Rec
on that one my friend. Now if you grab a screenshot of that scene, photo shop Neal’s head over Pacino’s and Cashman’s over GD Spradlin’s, I’ll name my next son “JRoth95”.
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 10, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Tanks!
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
2 Points We haven't explored
- Discussion of acquiring AJ Burnett generates at least 3 posts/articles w/over 400 comments here. On Pinstripe Alley, its part of one summary with 23 comments.
- Does the possibilty of being traded (even though its off the table) give GI Jones an incentive to agree to a deal? Does it make him realize that it might be better to get what he can while here since he might be in a less desirable role (part-time backup) with another team?
Welcome to the new dark ages.....
As
far as I can tell, Pinstripe Alley is dead.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 10, 2012 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
Oh?
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks
No offense
:( Lol. It just isn’t as hopping as those blogs out west, Lookout Landing and McCovey Chronicles. I have read Pinstripe Alley a few times and really like the content on there.. if that salvages anything…
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 11, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
We like to focus more on the known than the rumors really, and we basically have a universal (with few exceptions of course) opinion of Burnett, so there isn’t much to discuss.
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks
I'm trapped here in New York
so I have a passing familiarity of the Yankees fans love of A.J. – I was surprised not to see a fund-raiser to help defray his moving expenses if that’s what it took to get this deal done.
Welcome to the new dark ages.....
by Trogluddite on Feb 10, 2012 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
By the way, love that you say “trapped” in New York. And that’s really not sarcasm, I’m a native and current New Yorker and I totally know what you mean.
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks
I'd be willing to be "trapped" in New York for a few years
if $ was plentiful for me
brunette?
I’d rather take the blonde ….. or redhead…….or BOTH
by BadAndy on Feb 10, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You take the blonde
and I’ll take the one in the turban.
by bucdaddy on Feb 11, 2012 2:32 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Thank you - I knew I could count on you!
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.SEE ALSO (particularly starting at 2:00)
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________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 11, 2012 9:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Teri... and yes!!! unfortunately, multiple sclerosis has really sapped the life out of her
<img src="http://filer.www.votigo.com/20327.3255.16080_large.jpg"/>
by white angus on Feb 11, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
.
<img src="http://filer.www.votigo.com/20327.3255.16080_large.jpg"/>
by white angus on Feb 11, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
On a completely different subject and I apologize if it has already been discussed, why didn’t we offer more money to the raysvfor the aaa first baseman who was MVP of league?
I meant before the trade to cleveland, cleveland only sent cash to the rays.
by pirateinva on Feb 11, 2012 5:15 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Moneyball
I know some of you hated the movie, but I found it a very entertaining investment of 2 hours+.
I’d like to see Neal in the role of Billy Beane when he wiggled Rincon off of Mark Shipiro. Mike Rizzo on one line (Lannan), Ruben Amaro on another (Blanton), and Brian Cashman on the third (Burnett). Not that I want Blanton or Lannan necessarily, but to force Cash’s hand. It would be fun to be a fly on the wall.
The movie was good
Just hated the scenes with Beane’s daughter. Had nothing to do with the movie and didn’t move the plot forward one bit.
Ovechkin-Leich-Semin: The greatest line in hockey..............................Tee Hee
Proud supporter of the following clubs: Pittsburgh Penguins, Erie Otters, Columbus Crew, Boston Celtics and the best football clubs in the land: Manchester United F.C.
The Manchester United Football Club: Winning countless trophies and making City fans jealous and full of envy since 1902.
by Bradley James McEachern on Feb 11, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder
Who the Pirates have in mind to dump off the 40 man roster, I mean obviously if EJax would have signed here they would have needed to get rid of someone too. I wonder since we signed all those ML Invites relief pitchers like Cruz, Reyes, Slaten, etc. I’m thinking RP will go or Neil might look to trade one.
Time to get creative?
I can’t help thinking that NH has a chance to give up GFJ and a couple of middling to decent prospects for AJ Burnett, John Lannan and Adam LaRoche for roughly the $10m extra salary that they were prepared to spend on E-Jax in 2012.
by RDV across the sea on Feb 11, 2012 1:32 PM EST reply actions
To clarify.
Jones for Burnett should be a straight swap while LaRoche and Lannan could be traded for a couple of C+/C type prospects that the Pirates scouts don’t like (Bryan Morris/Rudy Owens?). I think the Nats are keen to trim their payroll and have Morse play 1B so Harper can start in LF..
by RDV across the sea on Feb 11, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
are you suggesting bringing Adam LaRoche back?
Arent’ we O’fer Laroche? Can’t we bring back someone with a little more energy and a higher contact rate at 1b? Is Kevin Young still alive? Craig Wilson? Bueller? Anyone?
Thank you!
Pittsburgh should be a LaRoche free zone hereinafter.
Have people forgotten how utterly frustrating both LaRoches were? And Adam, by himself, completely disproves sabermetrics.
I'm fine with bringing Adam back
but not until July. Let somebody else have the April-June .190/.220/.300.
by bucdaddy on Feb 12, 2012 9:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Does it matter?
As long as he produces what Jones would have done.
by RDV across the sea on Feb 11, 2012 2:50 PM EST reply actions
therein lies the rub
I don’t think that LaRoche can produce like GFJ, except for the one 3 week stretch per year when he does his best Frank Thomas impression, blistering the ball to all fields. Then for the rest of the year he reverts to a steady diet of weak dribblers to 2b and golden sombreros. And unless he is talking about deer hunting you’d think he was in a near vegetative state.
So please in the name of Brad Eldred, keep the PBC a LaRoche free zone.
jones is very similar to Laroche in that he usually produces in hot streaks.
but laroche is by far the better ballplayer, and always has been. Jones took Laroche’s spot simply because of economics.
not so sure about that.
I don’t think LaRoche is a far better player. Looking at offensive stats, I believe they’re very similar. And while LaRoche is a little better at 1b, he cannot play RF, where Jones is serviceable.
Jones is 2 years younger and LaRoche missed 2/3 of 2011 due to a shoulder injury and surgery. LaRoche will make $8Million in 2012 compared to GFJ in the $500K range.
Now I’d be consider enduring LaRoche if he came with Lannan. But I’d prefer we continue without any LaRoches on the payroll.
Interesting fact: LaRoche is of Mexican decent, his father’s surname was Garcia, but changed it to his stepfather’s surname of LaRoche when he was seven.
jones will make 2.25 mil or 2.5 mil
depending on arb.
by karreemofwheat on Feb 11, 2012 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
According to Wikipedia, it was actually Adam and Andy’s father Dave (also a professional baseball player) who changed his name from Garcia to his stepfather’s surname of LaRoche; Adam and Andy are both Dave’s biological children.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 11, 2012 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
I just think that's his head
will SNL have an unfrozen head of greatest hitter of all time skit?
Sometimes when I get a message on my fax machine, I wonder: “Did little demons get inside and type it?” I don’t know! My primitive mind can’t grasp these concepts.
I think if the Bucs are going to try and make a move for the post season
Burnett is not the answer. Why give up an ok prospect and absorb $10 million when they can give up 2 or 3 and get an ok start that isn’t horribly overpaid. Why not try and nab Lannan from the Nationals because they don’t have a spot for him in their rotation.
I don't think they're making a move for the post-season
but a move to make a woefully inadequate starting rotation less woefully inadequate… I’d consider it a bone, thrown to the PNC faithful for supporting the current AAAA squad.
yeah
as lloyd said, its a gamble more than a move… fwiw, though, I have no interest in giving up anything of value for Lannan either, and hope the Pirates don’t… 2 or 3 ‘real’ prospects is out of the question, I think, for Lannan (at least I hope so)
by BurgherKing on Feb 12, 2012 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
I may have overstated how much I think the prospects are worth.
With the current situation, I would much rather get Lannan than Burnett. Sure Burnett has some clout behind him with what he was, but I think Lannan would be more worth it because he is getting paid astronomically less. We won’t even have to pay that $10 million a year.
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