Pirates Trade Rumors: A.J. Burnett Deal With Yankees Looks More Likely Than Ever
by Charlie Wilmoth on Feb 12, 2012 12:37 PM EST
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PrintHere's a summary of A.J. Burnett rumors so far on Sunday:
-P- Buster Olney writes that the Pirates and Yankees have plenty of "common ground" and that they're "settling details." Who knows if this will happen or not, but it sounds more likely today than it did earlier this weekend.
-P- As I mentioned below, Jon Heyman tweets that the Pirates have offered two minor-leaguers for Burnett, and that offer doesn't really excite the Yankees. But Heyman still thinks the Pirates will be able to get done by taking on $13-15 million in salary.
$15 million would probably be too much to pay, but overall, this is good news. It sounds like there's a good chance the Pirates are going to get this done without giving up much of anything except money, which is what I was hoping for.
-P- Tim retweeted a rumor from some writer in San Diego that the Yankees could be interested in Nick Kingham being part of the trade. I wouldn't worry about that for a second -- I don't think that will happen in a million years, unless other players are involved. Trading prospects that good isn't really a part of Neal Huntington's M.O., especially when trading for a mid- to back-of-the-rotation type of starter with a bloated contract. Also, Heyman notes that the Pirates are primarily worried about keeping their prospects, not the amount of money they spend. Even in a worst-case scenario where the Pirates somehow get hosed in this deal, I'd expect the problem to be that they took on too much salary, not that they gave up quality prospects.
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If they gave up Kingham
I’d probably be for firing Huntington, unless he had some sort of undisclosed injury they weren’t telling the Yankees about.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
Agreed
If Kingham goes I will beyond pissed, unless of couse like a Gary Sanchez or Betences would be coming back which would be very highly unlikely.
Could he come over in that deal?
Or would he have to be a PTBN?
by NastyNate82 on Feb 12, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
PTBN
because he was drafted this year, Think he would be available in May at the earliest
Thought so
Apparently, he’s already made big changes to his swing and saw pretty good results as well.
The chances of one of those coming back in the deal has to be essentially 0.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
Agreed, unless the Pirates pick up alot more money I could see it happening
thats the only way.
For the Yankees, losing those prospects isn't worth money.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
Exactly
but for some reason they seem to be so money conscious right now, which is really odd to me.
I think its to get under the luxury tax threshold. That isn't worth losing one of those guys over.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
I agree
but the Yankees are also living in a different universe. A different form of thinking when you’re shelling out 8 figures for setup men like Rafeal Soriano. Of course, signing players like Soriano to those deals got them in this luxury tax problem in the first place.
Yeah, for Pineda and Campos who are nasty.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
But we have Jones!
He should fetch at least that much.
Yea but why do they care so much?
Just dish out the cash like always
No idea, but they seem to care about it.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
7.5 mil each year
doesn’t sound too ridiculous for a guy who has the potential to outperform in the NL. The guy has listened to Yankee fans booing him for two years. If that isn;t motivation to win 20 games what is?
Frankly, I would have 0 motivation if I were him.
He’s 35, has earned over $100M in his career pre-tax once this contract is finished regardless of how he plays, and is getting traded from a team going to the playoffs to one with 0% chance of making the playoffs. I’d be extremely unmotivated if that were my situation.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
Maybe
But it also seems that he absolutely detests NY. Can be suffocating for some players
by NastyNate82 on Feb 12, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Just because you absolutely detest NYC, that doesn't mean you would be motivated somewhere else.
It’s possible, but I think its very unlikely.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
OK, but you're not him, so your hypothetical feelings on the matter are irrelevant
by maguro on Feb 12, 2012 1:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You're right, it doesn't matter what I think.
All of those things I listed are great reasons for him not to give a fuck about anything for the rest of his life.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
He’s already released a statement through his agent saying that he’s ready to pitch for the Yankees or whoever acquires him. Maybe he just likes to play baseball?
by maguro on Feb 12, 2012 1:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He needs to continue to play to collect his $33 MM
I’m not saying he isn’t going to play, I’m saying he has no reason to care about his performance.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
well, i have to say that you are kinda hating on Burnett right now
none of us here can say that he doesnt care about his performance. theres no reason to think he is just going to derek bell the pirates and just go through the motions.
There is a reason.
He already has a WS, a fuckload of money, and is old by baseball standards.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
He’s also a professional athlete who’s been playing baseball at a very high level for a decade now. He’s put together a well above-average career, and even Yankees fans annoyed with his play concede he’s been a standup guy throughout the last two seasons.
Burnett would give the Pirates plenty of effort. It’s what he does.
No jinx no jinx no jinx.
by Suffering Buc on Feb 12, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
He may have PRIDE...
Most noteworthy athletes have PRIDE…and coming to the Burgh is considered an embarassment unless you’re a snotnosed rookie hoping to make it or over the hill looking to cash a few more paychecks before calling it a career. Unfortunately, that’s what the situation is here right now. This club needs to do make win games this year and begin to change it’s image or our own “core” players won’t want to sign for a long term contract either. Players like Cutch and Walker have PRIDE and
want a RING…they can get the money anywhere. Right now this club is an embarassment to play for and the free agents know it…
I agree with your first point
but not your conclusion.
Most athletes have a high degree of personal pride, that’s true. And because of that, they want to be perceived as great players no matter what team they’re on.
If Burnett comes to the Pirates and sucks, the guys on ESPN won’t say “Oh, Burnett doesn’t care about Pittsburgh.” They’ll say “Burnett is having an awful year.”
My conclusion is...
Noteworthy freeagents don’t want to be here…don’t want to be the cream of the crap. And if this scenerio doesn’t improve…our own “stars” won’t want to be here either. Cutch can get paid anywhere, he’s young and wants to play for a championship club. There’s no consolation being the best player on a crappy club for an athlete with PRIDE. Right now the Bucs aren’t even close…these prospects better pan out cause freeagents don’t want to be here…
Sure.
I’m sure a lot of guys don’t want to play for Pittsburgh. That’s been well-documented.
I take issue with the sentiment that a guy like Burnett won’t give full effort because he’s not playing for his ideal team. (I realize now that you didn’t actually say that, Oldjoe, but your response to Suffering Buc seems to indicate that you think Burnett might not give 100% because of his pride.)
I think that pride is exactly what keeps a guy like Burnett working hard — he wants to be seen as a winner no matter where he plays. And if he does want to end up on a different team, he knows his best chance of doing so is to play well and get traded.
Ask Gary Sheffield
about “playing well to get traded.”
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 13, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
Sigh......
I was blessed to see three world championship teams play in the Burgh and there was a time when I looked forward to spring training. The younger posters on this site never saw a winner and I’m wondering if my grandson ever will either. Here’s to getting to .500 this year, hoe depressing….
so what!
derek jeter has a boatload of money and a shitload of rings. he was also critisized about his play early last season, that he “lost it”.
David Ortiz has two rings and money.
but AJ Burnett doesnt give a shit???
If he has to play for a team with 0% chance of competing, and end his career with no shot at WS title I think he would choice to stay in NYC.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
*choose.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
Not necessarily
he could block 10 teams (Bucs aren’t among them…and they probably have less a chance to make it than some of the teams that he did block).
he seems to have blocked the West Coast teams
His no-trade list apparently was about staying close to his wife, who lives in Baltimore and doesn’t like to fly.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 12, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
Link?
Maybe he isn’t a Boras fan.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
having trouble finding the link.
maybe i’m seeing things again, but I could swear that ive read it somewhere
So basically you mean making a ton of money equals losing any bit of a personal pride.
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Feb 12, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
It can
Ask Derrek Lee why he turned down a guaranteed $8MM a year here to probably retire?
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
if anything
i’d say Lee disproves your point, since he did well as a Pirate last year in spite of not wanting to have been here.
The reasons for him turning down money aren’t clear and may have been personal, but if they weren’t, it only shows he’d rather play somewhere he’d want to than simply play for money.
What I'm saying is I don't think he wants to come here.
He’s going to play to get his paychecks, but I don’t think he has incentive to care about the outcome.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
that's exactly what i m disagreeing with
he’s not playing for his next paycheck, although what he’s playing for isn’t clear at this point. It’s a good bet though that he could have made more by accepting arb.
Clearly, there’s some outcome he cares about.
but I don’t think he has incentive to care about the outcome.
No pressure, No problem: stellar season
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Feb 12, 2012 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
Barely, there are some large number of zeros after the decimal point.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
Most importantly:
Burnett had 11 wins last year. Eleven! He wins.
The Smizik/Madden communities will love him!
No jinx no jinx no jinx.
Wow.
I never noticed that. That is night and day. Why even have him start at home anymore?
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
by IAPiratesFan on Feb 12, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
its insane, right???
on the road, Correia was easily our best pitcher numbers wise. at home, by far the worst.
Heyman
“The Pirates are more concerned about prospects than money, so they’re more likely to compromise on the amount of money they’ll pay Burnett, Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com tweets.”
Hopefully that means no Kingham.
The Kingham thing
was a mistake by Tim. He’s already said he shouldn’t have re-tweeted it.
No Kingham. Relax.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 12, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
I’m hoping the Pirates can dump Correia as part of this deal. Maybe let the Yankees eat 1M less in exchange for clearing the roster spot.
No jinx no jinx no jinx.
Doubtful.
They’ll need Correia to eat some starts at some point. Like it or not.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
I dont like that one part
The Yankees likely will pay $19-23MM of $33MM remaining on Burnett’s contract and receive multiple minor leaguers in return, according to a source with knowledge of the discussions, writes Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. Those prospects would not be players on the Pirates’ 40-man roster, the source said.
Propsects
Tim Alderson, Calvin Anderson, and Diego Moreno most I would give. Moreno probably becomes a future All Star Closer though.
i think we'll do just fine
NH has been adamant about keeping his prospects. other than Pounders, he hasnt traded any of them. i seriously doubt he would send anyone hugely valuable in a salary based deal.
I actually like the "multiple" part of it...
Think about it. If we have offered Kingham or Mercer, the Yankees would have taken it and ran to the bank. The fact that it’s is multiple means we probably said, “We’ll give you Calvin Anderson”, and to try and feel like they are getting the upper hand, Cash came back with “better make it 2 Calvin Andersons”
so
someone had to throw Kingham’s name in there just to make Pirate fans uncomfortable for another day…
They already drafted Gerrit Cole once.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 12, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Ha!
Cashman: Hey Neal, we’re looking at your minor leagues and we want Gerrit.
Huntington: You want to trade AJ Burnett for Garrett Jones?
Cashman: Um no, we want Gerrit Cole.
(click)
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
by IAPiratesFan on Feb 12, 2012 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks
I just grabbed a fork out of the dishwasher to gouge out my eyeballs.
Good move
Using a clean fork.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
by WTM on Feb 12, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Which fork is the right one for eyeballs?
A shrimp fork, maybe?
by Vlad on Feb 12, 2012 5:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Curtis Granderson only has two years left on his deal
So they’re probably looking for a CF …
link / citation?
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 12, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
it's a joke, son
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 12, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Man, I just wish he'd hurry up and get traded to Pittsburgh already.
Maybe if I go to the store and get a few things, maybe he’ll be a Pirate when I get back.
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
Also...
If he is traded to the Bucs, will Daniel McCutchen give up #34 so that Burnett could wear it or will he have to find another number to wear?
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
Think this should be the winner, but sounds like they like him a lot
I personally like Navarro the best out of the Harrison’s Hague’s, d’Arnaud’s, Mercer’s
Looking over the 40 man today, the first three guys I'd get rid of are:
Nunez
D. McCutchen
Moskos
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
I dont understand why?
Moskos put up a good ERA in his first trip in the bigs, I dont understand all the hate that comes with the kid, just because hes not Matt Wieters.
My reason for pick Moskos has nothing to do with Wieters.
It has to do with the fact that he isn’t good. His ERA was due to luck, his K% and BB% ratios were not impressive last year. I like the upside of our other relievers on the 40 man more.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
*picking
Wow I can’t type today.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
I wouldn’t dfa Moskos, but he definitely doesn’t rank high on the 40-man, imo, for exactly these reasons. He throws a low-90s FB and an OK slider with poor command. I’m not impressed.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
I wouldn't DFA him right now, but I wouldn't allow his spot on the 40 man to stop any acquisition or protecting somebody in next year's Rule V.
I’d probably drop Nunez and D. McCutchen first.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
Yeah I have no idea what that's about.
He wouldn’t be my bet to be the first to be off the 40-man, but that would be my choice.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
with Correia possibly becoming the long man...
DCutch would be the choice. Nunez will probably be sent back to Detroit after spring training.
oh no!
just heard it’s Tallion and Heredia for Burnett and Gardner. Fire the GM!
It’s funny/sad that so many people feel the need to make joke proposals like this to soften the blow of paying 2/14 plus Zac Fuesser and Jodaneli Carvajal for AJ Burnett. If we had a GM we could actually have some faith in, Fuesser, Carvajal and 2/14 would be the ridiculous joke scenarios, but we all know that type of deal is a distinct possibility.
Agreed...
I am starting to feel sick to my stomach about this situation. I would have offered $8m and a semi-warm body, and if they said no, hung up the phone.
www.drstrangeglove.com
exactly
Two days ago the news was that the Pirates agreeing to take on $10M would get it done. Now we’re looking at $12M or more plus prospects and Pirate fans suddenly seem to think that would be a good deal. I don’t get it.
no one suddenly thinks its a good deal
if we’re paying 12M, it depends on the prospect(s). I said in a thread earlier that I expected it to go to 12M, and that was fine with me.
you're right
I should really step back from the ledge. I told myself I wasn’t going to get worked up about it until it was a done deal, and here I am getting worked up about hypotheticals. Hopefully NH is smart enough to realize that if he shouldn’t need to pay more than $12M or give up any players with any value at all.
it depends
if its a prospect not worth anything, and the difference between getting it done is 1M, I’d do it. (At the same time, this thing has stretched too long, and if I were NH, I’d give my version of the final terms, have the Yanks provide theirs, and take it or walk away. It feels like whatever offer the Bucs are coming up with is getting shopped around, which is fine for a bit, but cannot be going on too long)
Its only stretched cuz everyone knows about it
And everyone knows about it because? I have no clue why. maybe to bring other teams in on what it might take to get aj
by tbote123 on Feb 12, 2012 8:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
we have not had this much chatter here on a sunday
since Brandon Moss hit his walkoff hr.
a desperate NH makes me worry
If he gives up Kingham in a deal for Burnett; Huntington miles well just follow him out the door…
if the Yanks really insist on Kingham and 50-50
Neal needs to move on.
That said the Yanks (and their fanbase) want AJB GONE!
I don't recall...
the fan base screaming for Bautista to go. The manager and GM might have been screaming to get rid of him though. LaRoche, on the other hand, was definitely the fan base.
Kingham is NOT INVOLVED in the deal.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 12, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Link?
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
From Tim @ Pirates Prospects:
@pirateprospects
Earlier I RTed a rumor about Kingham. I don’t really believe the rumor. If it was true, it would be a lot to give up for Burnett.
I think after that last tweet from Heyman we can all relax on the idea of Nick Kingham being in the deal.
And, as Charlie says in the body of this post we’re commenting on:
Tim retweeted a rumor from some writer in San Diego that the Yankees could be interested in Nick Kingham being part of the trade. I wouldn’t worry about that for a second — I don’t think that will happen in a million years, unless other players are involved.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 12, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
link
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 12, 2012 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
the yankees are not holding the cards
they want Burnett gone.
You can't expect to get him free
If the Yankees don’t get any meaningful salary relief, they’ll just hang onto him and wait to see which teams have starters go down in ST. NH has to offer something or the Yankees will just sit tight. In the long run they always have many more options for making moves than the Pirates do.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
Even teams that have starters go down in ST aren’t going to give the Yankees 2/14 for Burnett. Maholm got 1/4.5, Bedard 1/5, EJax 1/11, Kuroda 1/10, etc. There’s no way an injury in ST suddenly inflates the market to the point where 2/14 for Burnett makes sense for any team. No one’s suggesting we should get Burnett for free, but it absolutely should not take 13-15 million.
13 is fair
6.5 each year. Maholm and Bedard both had injuries, Burnett has been healthy. I would rather have Burnett for 6.5 than Jackson for 11.
This is the line I personally settled on for Burnett. I’d be ok with them going as high as 6.5 million per year.
"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
RIP Corey Keller, James Taylor, M. Jay Darby, Derek Davis.
by gorillakilla34 on Feb 12, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
this is where its getting too close to the tipping point
i d be OK with that amount, but it needs to be a really low prospect going back at that point.
Those salary figures don’t support your point. And you don’t know what the market will be in ST. Neither does Cashman and neither does NH. But the Yankees can afford to run the risk of holding on more than the Pirates can afford the risk of doing nothing. NY already took the risk that they’d get stuck with Burnett, so it’s obviously a problem they can live with. The Pirates, otoh, are about out of possibilities for pitching upgrades. Within reason, NH needs to get a deal done.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
wrong
you under estimate how bad the yanks need Burnett gone. The Bucs hold the cards.
They don't
NEED him gone. They’d like to get rid of him, but its not like they’re going to go under if they hang onto him. There’s a big difference.
oh they need him gone
they don’t want the season to start with him on the club, period.
But
its not a live-or-die thing if he doesn’t, either. He likely won’t even be in the 5 man to start the season (CC, Pineda, Hughes, Garcia, and Nova)
It's not a live or die thing for the Bucs either.
There’s a good chance that in the next two years, Burnett reaches the point of aged dilapidation and there’s a 100% chance that he won’t make the Pirates competitive, so what motivation do they have to overpay for him?
and we don’t NEED him either. It’s not like we’re winning the WS with him in the fold. WTM continues to overstate the need for a SP in April. We might be desperate in mid-May when Karstens and Correia bomb, Mac regresses, Bedard has shoulder tightness, and the AAA guys aren’t doing anything. Of course, that is more hypotheticals than it takes for us to get to 80 wins, but that’s the reality the “We must get a SP” types are living in.
Well if all those bad scenarios happen
its best to be prepared for it, isn’t it? We’re not winning the WS with him, thats correct, but he’s a good bet to rebound and do something nobody else on the staff can do, save Bedard: miss bats.
I don't think Pedro and McGehee are as likely to need TJ surgery
but I actually think you could do far worse in bench guys than Eric Chavez.
I’m not underestimating anything. Obviously, the Pirates are in the better bargaining position or this deal wouldn’t even be on the table, and they sure as hell wouldn’t be talking about “OK prospects.”
The Yankees need a chunk of Burnett’s salary gone, not Burnett himself. If they don’t accomplish that, they’re not going to deal.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
Why don’t you think the figures I reported support my argument? I gave four examples of better pitchers who were guaranteed less money and fewer years.
Boras doesn’t know what the market will be like in ST either, but he’s not holding out hopes that an injury will force someone to give 2/25 to Edwin Jackson. The market for the offseason has been set, and an injury in ST is not going to drastically change it.
I don’t agree that the Pirates can’t afford to do nothing. It would be foolish of NH to think he absolutely needs Burnett. AJ’s not good enough to force that kind of desperation.
Not even close
Maholm is not as good as Burnett. Bedard is unlikely to pitch more than half a season, while Burnett has made 32-34 starts four straight years. And Kuroda and Jackson got nearly twice as much per season as the Pirates are likely to pay Burnett, if they get him.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
As mentioned above, Maholm is demonstrably better than Burnett. Missing half a season or not, Bedard projects better than Burnett. Kuroda and Jackson get less guaranteed money than Burnett, a shorter term, and are far better pitchers.
The age difference means next to nothing considering that Burnett still gets a lot of swings and misses and we’re only talking about a two-year commitment. You’re basing everything on the assumption that Burnett won’t bounce back from the last two seasons. That’s not a good assumption. He still has a far higher ceiling than Maholm.
And Bedard projecting better than Burnett is absurd. This is a guy who’s produced a grand total of 5.3 WAR over the last four years, to Burnett’s 11.9.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
The difference between a 30-year-old and a 35-year-old is certainly significant. NH would be foolish to disregard this.
I am not assuming that Burnett won’t bounce back. But I’m not assuming he will either. He does have a higher ceiling than Maholm, but he’s also a lot more risky. The mean outcome is probably about even. The Pirates should play for the upside, of course, but the shouldn’t pay $10M more over an extra season for it.
Re: Bedard and Burnett, every projection I’ve seen has them even or Bedard slightly better.
Even granting your premise that Burnett isn't a good deal
The Pirates still need starting pitching help, how do you propose to address that if we pass on Burnett because he costs too much? What are our other options here?
Please don’t say Brad Lincoln.
If he's healthy.
Which he may or may not be.
by Vlad on Feb 12, 2012 5:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I reject the premise
I hate this argument. The idea that the Pirates must make stupid moves if posters on blogs can’t suggest plausibly better alternatives irritates me. Lincoln, McPherson, Locke, Owens, Correia, and Reyes aren’t good choices, but they’re not bad enough that we should overpay for AJ Burnett (who’s not all that good either).
by epoc on Feb 12, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As a fan, I don’t see why I should get worked up about whether the Pirates pay $10M or $14M of Burnett’s salary. It’s not my money, why do I even give a shit what the final number is as long as it’s not so large that it hamstrings the team going forward?
I do know that Burnett is better than all those guys you mentioned and I’d much rather have him starting games for us next year than any of them. As long as they don’t get stupid and give up a good prospect, I’m fine with whatever dollar figure management is willing to pay.
by maguro on Feb 12, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
6.0 million a year
is what burnett worth, so if yanks pick up 21 million
thats a break even ,zero prospects going back deal. So if the yankees pick up more than 21 million some prospects will have to go. also 2/14 the bucs should be getting prospects back.
"please buy the team mr. cuban"
but we wouldnt be overpaying for Burnett
if Burnett was available to all 29 teams, and the Yanks were paying at least half of his salary, 29 teams would be all over him!!!
no, hes not an ace. but $7MM salary for him is > than $7MM for Maholm
Burnett is noe a FA.
the others you cited were, yes?
There’s a difference right there… a pretty good-sized one, IMO.
________________________________
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by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 12, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
exactly
That means we shouldn’t have to overpay.
Exactly.
Cashman is still accountable for bringing back as much value as he can. Helping the Pirates out is not part of his job description.
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
have faith Barry
alot of people will never agree with the eventual deal, but we need a solid starter who strikes out hitters. I would rather pay 15 mil with a low prospect than pay 10 and lose a real prospect.
I just thing people lose sight of the fact
that the Yankees need Burnett gone more than the Pirates need him. We’re the only suitor, but we appear to be bidding against ourselves.
No, we're not the only suitor,
according to Heyman and/or Olney. There’s up to 4 teams including the Pirates in on this. We’ve just made the most progress.
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by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 12, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
I think you have to take that with a grain of salt.
Other suitors sound a bit like the mythological “mystery” team.
There's a difference
between “mystery team,” and “3 others.”
I believe Heyman and Olney much more than say, Perotto or the like.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 12, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I think the Pirates are 1 of 4 from what I furst read.
One of those is a West coast no trade team.
One reportedly is Cleveland who would like to send them Hafner as part of the deal.
That leaves the magical (some might say, mythical) mystery team.
Cue the Beatles" The magical mystery team is waiting to take you away….
“reportedly is Cleveland”
link to report?
I’m not bagging you, Brakes, nor BarryJT, but there’s obviously more than the Pirates involved when guys like Heyman and Olney are tweeting that it’s possible that the Yankmees are going to take the Pirates’ best offer and show it to others to try to get it topped. So the “mystery team” could very well be a player in this scenario.
________________________________
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by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 12, 2012 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Cleveland link. A New York writer speculating, I think (he thinks the other team might be the Royals).
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 12, 2012 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
Cool.
Thanks!
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 12, 2012 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
The impression I get, reading between the lines, is that the Yankees are trying very hard to drum up interest in Burnett, but no one else is really stepping up. The fact that no one even knows who the mystery teams are after several days of seemingly intense negotiations between the Yankees and Pirates makes me think that Cashman’s overtures to the mystery teams haven’t amounted to anything yet.
Not to say that someone can’t jump in and make a deal at the last minute – this stuff is unpredictable – but I don’t think anyone else is really interested in Burnett right now. Let alone this alleged 4-way bidding war that the Yankees are trying to conjure up.
sounds plausible
especially given that everyone reporting interest from other teams is also reporting that they think that Burnett will go to the Pirates.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 12, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
Burnett's Personality?
Would he be the type to come in and potentially mentor some of the younger guys? I don’t really buy into the whole veteranosity stuff except to some extent for pitchers. I have heard examples of younger pitchers crediting a vet with guiding them or giving them some perspective on the game. If Burnett could be that kind of guy, it would be a nice bonus. Sometimes you are more inclined to pay attention to an older brother (a player) than your dad (a coach or manager).
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
good point
Just the fact that Pitt isn’t on his list of teams he can’t be traded to tells us he is not one of those guys. Unless his agent screwed up.
Maybe, but
we never know what motivates the player beyond money. Could be family (D-Lee) could be proximity to home (which helps explain why most of the teams Burnett blocked are Left Coast teams).
Yep
Money is a huge motivator for everyone, not just a baseball player. If they have made a ton of money (like Lee) and didn’t blow it all, they can afford to place more emphasis on other areas that are important to them. I don’t believe that many guys hang around to wring every last nickel they can out of the game. When these guys retire they are leaving behind a big chunk of their life. When you retire you are no longer a major league baseball player, which to most of us is a big deal/dream. Its probably an even bigger deal to them.
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
he won't be missed here
we shoulda got AJ Cole
Funny thing is...
This is the exact type of move that everyone’s been calling for for years, spending money on a solid player that fits into a slot where the Pirates have a deficiency, and yet that won’t keep the same people from complaining endlessly about this deal, no matter how little they Buccos have to give away.
by 2013Pirates on Feb 12, 2012 3:05 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Yinzers are never impressed
Just look how they react whenever the Pens and Stillers lose a game.
Ya gotta run the ball!
Thats the only way to win!
Yinzers are the poor man's Yankee fan.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
I don't know what makes me angrier in regards to the last big move by DL
the Morris deal (spending shit-tons on a toasted pitcher) or NOT spending on a potential franchise catcher like Wieters. DL is quite the Gordian knothead.
Yeah...best to not think about it
just angrys up the blood
best post of the day
you’re right, if the bucs get Burnett and have to pay 8 mil of his salary and throw in Josh Rodriguez people will bitch,.
I can guarantee
That someone will. Remember the guy who spent hours saying why trading for Lee at the deadline last season was the worst move ever made in the history of baseball?
no
I don’t remember that. Perhaps you could provide a link to refresh my memory.
I don't have the link
Sorry. The dude was absolutely insane though.
imagine if we didn't get Lee and Ludwick and did nothing
alot of people here would have said we blew it. We could have won the division and we sat on our hands!
I've seen Twit feeds
from Yinzers fans stating that they will disown the Pirates if we acquire Burnett.
You can never impress them.
Great
they can do me a favor and disown them but only if they promise never to mention the Pirates again. In other words I wish they would keep their word when they say: “that’s it, I’m done with this team”
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
The funny thing is
this isn’t trading Cutch or some sort of franchise player…I chuckle when AJ Burnett is a deal-breaker for teams whether they’ll follow the Bucs anymore or not.
2013 you might be wasting your time
epoc thinks Maholm is better than Burnett. If Maholm pitched in the AL east his numbers would be far worse than Burnetts. If you can find a link where epoc admits he is wrong about something good luck.
Was wondering how someone came out of nowhere with a ton of comments in the last three days and already had a well-defined opinion on who epoc is. Then, of course, it turns out this guy has been banned twice. Bye-bye for the third time.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Feb 12, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Good eye Charlie,
Good eye.
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
I thought pineapplepete was even meek was kentkekulve.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 12, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
i did think
evenmeek was different but i thought all the rest with pirates21/fatbastard/senatorblutarsky/pineapplepete/kentkekulve etc were the same…
gosh, it gets hard keeping track of this many multiple personalities when they are not your own.
evenmeek
was/is not pirate/senator/etc.etc. to the best of my knowledge.
I don’t think evenmeek was banned, was he? I thought that like danjenkins/jackiegleason he just got tired of being humiliated every time they made some jackass remark or post, and just gave up.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 12, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
I thought danjenkins was banned at least once
after an incident involving a bunch of homophobic slurs.
I could be wrong, though. I’m not privy to the inner workings of the blog; I just noticed that after that he didn’t seem to be around anymore.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 12, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
I think he just got tired
of being shouted down on every single, stupid, condescending comment.
Dunno.
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 12, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
If so,
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 12, 2012 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Dunno....
Charlie?
Comment?
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 12, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
this is important for my fantasy baseball commenters draft
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 12, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
so whats the over/under on days that he's back doing fanpost's
cue the lars anderson video.
by karreemofwheat on Feb 13, 2012 3:27 AM EST up reply actions
bookmark this
For future reference. I thought the Overbay signing was good when it happened. I was wrong.
Was that Smizik???
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
Giving them Moskos might work.
He has the potential to be at least marginally useful to the Yankees and Cashman can always say “hey, the guy WAS a first round pick”. At least it will save the poor kid from pitching in Pittsburgh where he will always be hated by the Yinzers because, y’know Nutting is cheap and Moskos proves it.
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
So, if the Yankees trade for Moskos.....
…does that make them cheap too? lol
Guilty through association or something like that…..
Sale the Yankees!
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
by Pagliaroni on Feb 12, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Break up the '27 Pirates!
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Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 12, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
From Pinstripe Alley
I’ve heard figures like 12 million being thrown around, even 14 million.
I’d be shocked if Cashman got the Pirates to take this much money, but it would be epic.
by ArunK on Feb 12, 2012 12:18 PM PST
and i m certain if you looked around Pirates boards
someone’s said, we pay 2M, give up no one and get Burnett.
Something not to necessarily overlook:
In his career, A.J. Burnett has been caught by Rod Barajas in 25 games and 163 innings. The Barajas/Burnett battery—used a lot by Toronto in 2008—produced a 3.49 ERA and .693 opposing OPS. The two have a history of working well together.
(Note: Burnett’s total ERA that year was over a half run greater than when he exclusively threw to Barajas.)
No jinx no jinx no jinx.
Burnett vs the NL
He has 11 starts for a total of 61.1 IP over the past 3 years against the National League. He has given up 36 ER for a 5.30 ERA.
In the same time span, he had 44 starts for a total of 259.1 IP against the AL East. He gave up 161 ER for a 5.59 ERA
by Be1isarius on Feb 12, 2012 4:46 PM EST via mobile reply actions
more stats for you about BURNETT:
in 2011, he pitched better against LHB than RHB
pitched much better at yankee stadium than on the road but the 19 HRs at home hurt more
than anything
his first half stats much better than second half with his whip climbing to 1.7
2nd half BABIP was .376, well above the league average
pitched well until late July and his August was atrocious. before that, pitched very well
in 4 interleague games last season, held opponents to an OPS of .717
only started 3 games in his career at PNC Park. pitched very well, but lets be honest, that was AGAINST the pirates
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