A.J. Burnett Trade 'Likely,' With Pirates Giving Up $13-15 Million, According To Report
by Charlie Wilmoth on Feb 13, 2012 5:31 PM EST
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PrintJon Heyman tweets that the trade for A.J. Burnett appears "likely":
#yankees, #pirates still talking aj. deal likely to get done w/ bucs paying $13-15M of $33M, & giving up 2 non-roster guys
$13-15 million is a lot to give up, and I would certainly hope that at that price, the Pirates won't be giving up anyone of consequence. I'm confident they won't. Some of the names I've seen floated around Twitter and on message boards -- Nick Kingham, Zack Von Rosenberg -- are just ridiculous, and even if you want to argue that Neal Huntington is an idiot, he's not that kind of idiot.) I'd rather the Pirates give up a little too much money than to have them give up actual prospects. And I'm glad they're finally on the cusp of doing something about the awful hole in their rotation. This isn't a move that's worth getting excited about, but as long as they're not giving up any good prospects, it's a responsible move that could help prevent disaster this season.
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Yea Money wouldn’t hurt and if somehow, someway, Burnett performed admirably with the Buccos, He could be flipped again early july for prospects and cash again(provided we’re not in the thick of things)…..How convoluted could this be? lol.
and I don’t think Burnett is a Matt Morris albatross deal like Littlefield did. I expect NH to do his due diligence especially taking on a large contract.
Our rotation is not that good with only Karstens and maybe Bedard being close to a high number 3 pitchers or MAYBE a low number 2.
This team needs an ace or at least someone who can stop a losing streak. This team folded after the trade deadline. Burnett can have a rebirth in the National League Central where he does not have to worry about the powerhouse clubs in the AL.
Kenneth Lewis Moore
it's taking on more $$ than originally reported but......
………I still think it’s a “fair” price for Burnett. My guess is the more $$ we take on the lesser the player(s) involved will be. The only part I disagree w/ Charlie is that as a Pirate fan this transaction is something to get excited about and I actually am!I think it is a positive step in the right direction…..
by Marooned Pirate on Feb 13, 2012 5:47 PM EST reply actions
I hope this deal works out
as long as no serious prospects are involved. But I can also see Burnett being K Correia # 2. Pitching a lot in the NL Central sans Pujols & Fielder should help though.
" I think this is probably the best team ever assembled. They talk about the Vince Lombardi Era, but I think the Chuck Noll Era is even greater. " - Mel Blount
I agree...
and it beats watching KC… If Pedro can find his mojo and Casey McGehee can help out a bit I could totally see us where we were at the All-Star Break last year.
alot of young pitching
and not enough innings at LOW A and state college, that being said 1 of the h/s pitching prospects of 2009 draft class could be part of this deal.
"please buy the team mr. cuban"
I have a feeling this is going to turn out badly.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
it went from 8-10 mil and jones to 13-15 mil and 2 prospects
is jones worth the xtra 5- 7 mil? thats 1st round money.
by karreemofwheat on Feb 13, 2012 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Von Rosenberg or Kingman better NOT be a part of any such deal
Ever. In any universe, including the creepy parallel universe in Fringe.
Bucs are going to get screwed on this deal
Paying roughly half of the contract plus giving up 2 prospects? Bah.
Why does anyone believe a thing from Heyman
or Twitter for that matter? I just don’t get it. Neither seems to be a very reliable source to me.
I for one like Heyman, he always seems to have a wealth of knowledge.
by oldfrothingslosh on Feb 13, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
When it comes to Boras clients
especially when it comes to Boras “leaks”
by Wizard of Woz on Feb 14, 2012 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
Walk Away....
Neal is like the mule (I didn’t want to say jackass) that has a carrot drawing him forward.
5M./ 6M per tops w/no prospects, take or leave it. Don’t be a fool.
by oldfrothingslosh on Feb 13, 2012 6:42 PM EST reply actions
Its not your money
so who cares, if the plan was to spend this money anyways then why does the extra few million matter if it gets the deal done.
its not about the money in this deal, but rather the prospects. lets what and see what happens
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
+1
some cry for the pirates to spend more money, now that they finally are, we want them not to? seems like a win-win for the pirates they get the payroll to where FC said it would be for this year and get a serviceable pitcher who will easily be best on staff to start the season,
Burnett’s contract will be off the books in 2 years, right around the time we need that money to pay cutch and walker.
I doubt the “prospects” in question will be anyone in the top 20. seems like a win to me.
As always it not about how much money is spent but how prudently it’s spent. Two years of Burnett won’t affect the Pirates ability to retain any key players (namely Cutch). It’s certainly possible that they could get more value for the $13-15 million they’d theoretically spend on Burnett over the next two years but unless he flops entirely I don’t think it’s money poorly spent.
given the reports of our offers to FAs
im not sure anyone wants to take our money, this might be the best possible way to spend, atleast it seems that way right now.
by bbautista24 on Feb 14, 2012 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
Kristy Robinson
has retweeted a writer that called them “blah” prospects. Who knows how he is defining “blah” though.
Seriously, the whole up to the second coverage kind of reminds me of Sidney Crosby’s recovery being followed breath by breath. I think we really need to take a step back and let things develop here. Of course, here I am following each proverbial breath…
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
It's always about the money, as it should be.
It can be about the prospects as well, but it is also about the money.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
Well..
presuming this gets done…
Burnett, Bedard, JMac, Morton, and Karstens looks a lot better than what we had going into the off-season knowing Maholm wouldn’t be back.
Cashman is stringing NH along
Seems like if he just waits another week to pull the trigger we’ll be willing to take $20 million and no prospects. At some point you have to be willing to walk away from a deal for the other side to relent.
I'd walk away right now and tell Cashman to call me when it's Daniel McCutchen and $10 MM, or else don't call me.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
by Kosstic518 on Feb 13, 2012 7:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That's only part of it.
We shouldn’t give up any prospect in a deal like this, nor should we be spending money for the sake of spending money. I’d rather take the $13-15 MM we are going to spend here and put it towards McCutchen. I think any rational person on this website would rather put the money towards McCutchen.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
Andrew, if that's not obvious.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
All things being equal, sure
But Cutch will be more likely to sign an extension if the FO makes a clear commitment to winning…and we actually do win more games. They can’t squirrel away $80 million by having the lowest payroll in the league over the next 2 years so that we can just give it to him.
Not saying Burnett is the answer here
Fair, but I'd counter with
A Burnett won’t change his opinion
B I’d take my chances of offering him $15 MM more on a contract to get him to stay than bringing in Burnett to get him to stay.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
I don’t think money spent on Burnett in 2012 and 2013 impacts their ability to sign Cutch long term, if it did I’d certainly be against the trade. It’s impossible to know how on field improvement affects Cutch’s willingness to sign a long term deal.
My mindset has shifted somewhat from ‘if you’re not going to make the playoffs you might as be bad enough to collect the best draft picks.’ True you certainly don’t want to be stuck in a cycle in which you’re perennially a .500 team but I do think there’s something to be said for continuing the positive momentum from last year (positive momentum being relative obviously) even if that means just winning 5-7 more games. Certainly you can argue that value and I think it’s a discussion worth having but if the improvement doesn’t undermine the future (no prospects are blocked or traded, the necessary money is still available to retain guys such as Cutch) I’m in favorite of it at this point.
I'm 100% positive it impacts their ability to sign McCutchen
They don’t have infinite financial resources, so the resources have to be allocated to the most productive uses, which in this case is saving up for an extension as opposed to adding 2 WAR to a non-competitive team.
Your points about the mindset shift you had are fair, but in my opinion that I’ll take the higher draft picks and go the route of the Rays.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
Since Burnett is off the books after 2013 (if he sticks around that long), I don’t see how it impacts a long term Cutch contract?
I don't get that
If we don’t spend 10 million this year, why can’t it be money in Nutting’s pocket he’d be willing to spend on Cutch.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 14, 2012 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
That might cause a problem with the MLB payroll requirements, mightn’t it?
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 14, 2012 8:55 AM EST up reply actions
It could
be, but
(1) I’ve seen no indication that we have to add payroll this year to avoid a problem with the MLBPA, etc.
(2) and we could just offer Cutch a contract now and frontload it more than usual.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 14, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
It does, you are incorrect.
Money doesn’t have to be spent during a certain time period. It can be saved.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saving
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
I'm kinda
excited about this. Is that bad?
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 13, 2012 7:19 PM EST reply actions
Yes
You know this has the potential to turn out badly and that we aren’t competing in 2012.
Get excited about our prospects.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
I think
AJ Burnett will provide plenty of value come July 31st. A team that picks him up will only have to pick up 13-15 million, and we could even chip in some. If he pitches well enough to be a #2 starter.. a #2 starter for the next 2 years at say 10 million for those two years, he could bring in a very attractive group of prospects.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 13, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
If
I’d rather keep Kingham or ZVR or both rather than hope that if comes true. If they give up garbage for him then I would be for the trade. I guess all we can do at this point is wait.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
What about
Mel Rojas Jr. and Ryan Hafner.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 13, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
i wouldnt
that should bring the price down to about 6-7M over 2 years
by BurgherKing on Feb 13, 2012 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
You know how much
I love our prospects, but isn’t that a bit extreme? I know its not an exact apples-to-apples parallel, but the chances of guys like Hafner or Rojas providing major league value are extremely low. Both aren’t even top 20 prospects.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 13, 2012 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
Both aren’t even top 20 prospects
That’s because the Pirates have a deep deep system with tons of breakout potential. Both Hafner and Rojas are lottery tickets that are far too good for Burnett. I wouldn’t be opposed to giving up one perhaps, but I’d prefer guys whose likeliest upside was a middle reliever.
They are lottery
tickets with a poor first year. Far from enough to write them off completely, but they are extreme lottery tickets. I like both, but I think you have to give them up if that’s the Yankees asking price.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 14, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
I would not accept that trade if I were NH.
Both guys are young and I’m not ready to completely throw in the towel on either. I’d only want to trade pieces I knew were complete garbage.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
No
I think it’s worth getting somewhat excited about. Burnett could bounce back nicely in Pittsburgh and, as long, as the “prospects” aren’t anyone to worry about, it’s a potential with little risk.
Everything that guy just said is bullshit . . .thank you
Maybe
This has the potential to turn out well, poorly or a push.
We can also get excited about our prospects as long as the “prospects” traded away don’t turn out to be good to great major league players.
Or we can let it all play out and see what happens.
If Burnett regains some value..
he’ll most likely bring back much more in a trade than the prospects given up to get him. If not, it’ll be a loss, but probably not one that has any long lasting effects.
deals dead
huntington playing games again, yanks are talking to other teams. they will keep burnett if the money or the prospects are not to there liking.
"please buy the team mr. cuban"
I didn’t realize that in addition to be a commenter you were also a reporter with industry connections.
by rj.reynolds on Feb 13, 2012 8:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s possible that he’s actually Tom Verducci…
by rj.reynolds on Feb 13, 2012 8:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I'm excited
but I’ll temper my enthusiasm until I know what pieces they have to give up. Knowing that NH would probably sacrifice his left nut before he would a legit prospect, I’m not that worried about it. The bottom line is that NH addressed a glaring deficiency and that the Pirates will be a better team the minute he puts on a Bucco uniform. Enough to put us in contention? Probably not but neither would Oswalt or Jackson. Also they are spending a bit of money and it will be fun to see how the idiotic minions of Smizik spin this into their “Nutting is Cheap” narrative.
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
Okay, now this just makes sense.
Knock it the f_ _ k off.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 13, 2012 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
Hell
those were probably my first lucid thoughts of the day. That’s about my limit though. Time to sink back into incoherence.
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
Attaboy.
I drink to your momentary lapse of discordance.
.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 13, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Well at least
The guy strikes people out. That’s something Pirates haven’t had since….Francisco Cordova? IF we don’t give up any worthwhile prospects, who cares about the money? At least it establishes a new baseline as to which we know Nutting can afford to operate. It’s only 2 years and the influx of minor league talent isn’t going to hit until a few years from now and his $$ will be off the books.
If we were in contention halfway thru the season with what we had last year against Fielder/Braun and injured Pujols/Larussa, who is to say with a rotation that would be much better (ideally consistency or even improvement from Morton/Mcdonald, slight dropoff of Karstens, and hopefully half a season out of Bedard with Burnett who would undoubtedly be better in the worst division in the NL) and not against those teams at their strength last year won’t at least do the same?
The big question to answer here is how much will this hurt the hopeful contention we’ll have in 2-3 years?
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