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Around SBN: Win or Lose, Boston Celtics' New Big 3 Era A Success

Another good article, this time from Marc Normandin at SB Nation.

3 months ago Charlie_tiny Charlie Wilmoth 57 comments 0 recs  | 

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Definitely a flip candidate

back-loaded 8 mil for year two

if this guy hurls, we’ve got chips

but if he doesn’t, we hurl chunks down the john

by bmcferren on Feb 17, 2012 9:57 PM EST reply actions  

probably the Angels

Morales proves healthy in March

Angels are on record to be looking for a 5th starter

Previous interest in OF Garret Jones

All leads in this direction…

by bmcferren on Feb 17, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

herp derp

looking at your comment in context, I see you were talking about sending McDonald to the Angels.

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 17, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Flip Candidate?

I would be surprised if Burnett turns out to be a flipped later this season. We would be assuming the worst, the Pirates having a bad season, and the Brewers or Cards having stronger seasons than projected. We also don’t know what the wildcard situation would be this season. The Bucs could be buyers again at the trading deadline. At worst, I see the club with 76 wins.

We also have to keep in mind how important it is to avoid 20 losing seasons in a row. If the Bucs are hovering around the .500 mark in late July, I would think the organization would have to be overwhelmed with a great offer to give up on the pursuit of 81(or better) wins.

by SteelStealth on Feb 17, 2012 10:23 PM EST reply actions  

Just finished my own personal review of the NL Central

and honestly, the Pirates have a real shot to be near the top of the division when fall roles around. They have a legitimate major league rotation, a legitimate major league bullpen, and a lineup that is a bit of a question mark. So that probably means the offense will set records, the bullpen will implode, and half the rotation will be in Indy by July.

by bosten7 on Feb 17, 2012 10:46 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Agreed

I keep mulling over all of the possible outcomes and my musings always bring me back to one guy – Pedro Alvarez. If Pedro starts to come on like we all hope he will, it could be a pretty interesting summer in Pittsburgh.

"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.

by Pagliaroni on Feb 17, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

more or less. Its up to Pedro and Burnett/Bedard eating innings and Morton/Karstens repeating 2011

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Feb 18, 2012 3:43 AM EST up reply actions  

that's a lot of "ifs"

and I think we see the answer when we remove the letter “f” from the word “way”…

by lloyd95 on Feb 18, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I've been refraining repeating this ad nauseam all winter...

because everyone was having so much fun arguing about each of NH’s decisions to acquire or not acquire certain guys were going to ruin the season.

Two things will determine if the Pirates have a successful season – Pedro must hit and Cutch has to produce the entire summer. There are other things to watch (Tabata progressing/ AP repeating), but no Pedro and only three months of MVP Cutch means a 90 loss season.

by BarryJT on Feb 18, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Hold on

and let see how he performs before we start making plans to ship him off at the trading deadline. I’m not sure the Pirates can legitimately contend for a division title but I do feel good about their ability win a lot more ballgames this year than they did in the last several. IMO the Pirates need to continue the job they started last year – rebuilding the fan base and some excitement for baseball in Pittsburgh. The need to start generating more revenue so maybe they can start keeping some of the pieces they are assembling. They never will be able to keep them all but it would be nice if they had the financial latitude to at least make some strategic choices when the time comes.

Also the days of teams giving up legitimate prospects at the trading deadine for a guy like Burnett are way long gone.

"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.

by Pagliaroni on Feb 17, 2012 10:57 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed.

Personally, I’m very happy with the Pirates’ off-season.

Burnett and Bedard could be a great combo in the rotation. Certainly a chance to be much better than the guys they replaced (Maholm and Ohlendorf).

Barmes and Barajas made not be flashy guys or huge upgrades, but they certainly solidify 2 of the most erratic positions (of late) on the Pirates at SS and C. I think Barmes is an incremental upgrade over Cedeno. He might not show Ronny’s flashes of brilliance, but he also won’t show the huge game-changing blunders either. Barajas while he’s more like Snyder, since he’s the starting catcher, we have to look at him in comparison to Doumit. Again, nowhere near the bat of Doumit, but since Doumit’s defense has completely fallen off a cliff, Barajas might be the more solid, all-around guy.

I’m excited for 2012. I know people want to downplay the first half of 2011. But, that team was in first place in July with ZERO production out of 3rd base, nearly ZERO production out of 1B and career minor leaguers as the starting catchers after seeing a whole organization’s worth of catchers going down.

Even if the Pirates are only slightly better than last year, they may be the only team in the NL Central that has taken a step (even though it may be a tiny one) forward. The Cards and Reds (and possibly the Brewers) are still formidable teams, but you certainly can’t say any of them are better off than they were last year. Will it be enough? Who knows?

by impliedi on Feb 17, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

And I didn't even add....

McLouth: possibly an incremental upgrade over Matt Diaz….

by impliedi on Feb 17, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions  

eye see what you did there

clever, but a little cornea

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

by michaelbro8 on Feb 18, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 19, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

the way the deal is worded

we get aj for 5 mil this year. we are on the hook for 8 mil next year. so we could have him for 11/2 years for 9 mil, and flip him next years deadline. if the team acquiring him is desperate, they may overpay. assuming 1/2 the 8 million at the deadline is an attractive price. this would be at this years price. who knows what next year brings. though seldom do prices drop unless his performance goes off a cliff. now thats bang for your buck.

by karreemofwheat on Feb 18, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

How can you underestimate Ronny's performance?

Look at the bidding war among contenders that’s broken out to get him….. ;-)

Welcome to the new dark ages.....

by Trogluddite on Feb 18, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Barmes can make some great plays

"Prince Fielder is too fat even for the Oakland A’s" - Billy Beane

by ol Pete on Feb 18, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

MLB Network

In wake of trade, “Hot Stove” stated the Buc’s rotation locks are AJ, Correia, Karstens, and Morton with McD, Bedard and Lincon competing for 5th spot. — Hilarious/sad.

That being said, I am still afraid we will see more of Correia than we would like.

by VanSlick on Feb 18, 2012 9:28 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

I am still afraid we will see more of Correia than we would like.

The natural pessimism of Pirate fans being what it is, it’s always easy to worry about stuff like this. NH has made a lot of mistakes at the ML level, but he seems at least to be able to recognize them and is far more willing than the team was under Bonifay and DL to cut short his losses. He released Morris early in the season (OK, that wasn’t his mistake), released Overbay, dumped Diaz, released Ramon Vasquez with a year on his contract, etc. Correia doesn’t suck to the point of being a candidate for release, but I don’t think NH is going to let him get in the way of better rotation options. If nothing else, they only control Correia for a year. Karstens, Morton and J-Mac are all longer-term assets. I seriously doubt NH will lose sight of that.

And the idea that they brought Bedard in just to “compete” for a spot is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard.

Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!

by WTM on Feb 18, 2012 9:40 AM EST up reply actions  

NH is not really the part of the equation that worries me. However, if Morton is slow to full stregnth or there are short term injuries, I fear Hurdle will push for Correia over Lincoln or, later, maybe McPherson or Owens (dare I say). It might not be that big of deal, but I’d rather see others get those starts.

by VanSlick on Feb 18, 2012 3:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

If the need for a starter arises later rather than sooner, I think Correia will be out of the equation one way or another.

Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!

by WTM on Feb 18, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

MLB Network

listed Correia as the ace, had Karstens getting bumped, and had J-Mac listed as a southpaw.

by KentuckyPirate on Feb 18, 2012 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

J-Mac listed as a southpaw.

The Pirates are turning J-Mac into a southpaw?! When is Nutting going to pay for a decent coaching staff?? Sale the team!

Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!

by WTM on Feb 18, 2012 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Seriously,

why would anyone would get baseball news anywhere but Bucs Dugout and SB Nation? ESPN? MLB? Pfffft. As I wrote to a friend who was griping about Mark Madden last week, “I really don’t understand why people listen to assholes they know are assholes and then complain that they’re assholes.” They is what they is.

by bucdaddy on Feb 18, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions   3 recs

so back to the Burnett trade...

who gets bumped off the 40 man roster ?

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

by michaelbro8 on Feb 18, 2012 1:03 PM EST reply actions  

Correia isn't getting bumped off the 40 man

If anything NH is going hold him in the hope that Ned Colletti becomes desperate enough to trade for him.

by BarryJT on Feb 18, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Good old Ned

I have to root for the Dodgers to have at least a decent season so Ned doesn’t get fired.

Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!

by WTM on Feb 18, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

You want him around for the continued amusement factor?

His job is safe until there is a new owner. Barring a championship, though, he’s gone. The new owner needs to erase everything from the McCourt era.

by BarryJT on Feb 18, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Man, there just aren’t many left. Wade, Hendry, Bavasi . . . the old school types are an endangered species. Jocketty and Sabean are old school, but they’re much smarter than the norm.

Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!

by WTM on Feb 18, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah. There really aren’t many anymore. Good for the game, but maybe not so good for small-market teams.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Feb 18, 2012 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

There were lots of them, especially in the NL, throughout DL’s tenure. Unfortunately, we had the dumbest of them all.

Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!

by WTM on Feb 18, 2012 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Don’t you guys think Melvin qualifies?

"Prince Fielder is too fat even for the Oakland A’s" - Billy Beane

by ol Pete on Feb 18, 2012 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

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