DannyMoe: Most intriguing roster battle for PBC this spring?
Dejan Kovacevic: Easy: Third base. I'm hearing that the Pirates are anything but set on handing the position to Pedro Alvarez. He's going to have to earn it, or he'll be playing his ball right here in Indiana.
4 months ago
Charlie Wilmoth
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Sounds reasonable
The question I have is, who competes with him? Casey McGehee? He was pretty bad in his own right last year. 600 PA, OBP below .300 and an OPS+ of 69? Ouch.
Of course, Pedro somehow managed to be worse…
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
Probably McGehee, maybe with Harrison and D’Arnaud as “a pox on both your houses” options.
Fox has a little 3B experience, too.
Wouldn’t Navarro be another “none of the above” option? I’d give him a higher chance of starting at 3rd than Harrison, though please God no.
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by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 2, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Does he have the bat?
To be honest, I’ve paid little attention to Navarro, but my sense was that he was a fairly classic good glove/light bat MI type. Not Ciriaco light, but awfully light for 3B.
FWIW, I wouldn’t weep over a McGehee/Harrison tandem at 3B, at least for a month or two. I sure hope that, even if PA doesn’t rake in ST, he doesn’t need 3 months to force himself into a promotion.
I’m going to pretend that it’s unpossible that Pedro could fails to force himself onto the 25-man by the ASG.
dunno
Navarro hasn’t hit one tiny bit in the majors in a small sample, but he’s hit a bit at a couple of levels of the minors — he hit well for the Red Sox AAA team but poorly for the Royals AAA team. I’m not sure I’d evaluate either him or Harrison as clearly superior hitters based on their minor league numbers. Yamaico seems to strike out more, walk more, and have more power than Harrison, none of which are hard to do.
Anyway, my impression was that Navarro was supposed to not have the glove for short, not the bat.
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by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 5, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
i thought he had decent defense, hits with pop.
was chubby, and lazy, with an attitude. gives up on running out ground balls.
by karreemofwheat on Feb 5, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I'm seeing that now
He kind of eats Harrison’s lunch – similar overall profile, but (probably) a notch better in most aspects.
Although I wonder how well Hurdle will put up with a guy with character/motivation issues.
I understand they have to say its a competition for the sake of the yinz
But it absolutely should not be. Pedro should play all year, so we have a better idea of what we actually have in Pedro. The season is shot, and the information we acquire about Pedro is more valuable than the difference is wins (if any) between he and whoever else would play there.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
I agree to an extent. I think he should get the bulk of the playing time. But don’t feel that this season is shot. If he sucks like last year, yea, its shot. If he plays up to his potential, there is the possibility of the team being competitive all season. Perhaps far enough that the team is able to be buyers again at the deadline.
Pedro is really the best hope (if not only hope) that 2012 isn’t another wasted season. We all have to keep our fingers crossed that he breaks out.
the only chance
we would have for the season not to be shot is for Pedro to put up about 4 WAR (which he is certainly capable of)
obviously a lot of things can break the right way for this team, and if they do we can not only be winners but challenge for the division. That’s not something we’ve been able to say in years
This I agree with
But I don’t agree that the team or the player benefits from 300 more PA at 75 OPS+.
It’s not like we need to cut the guy if he doesn’t spend all of 2012 in Pittsburgh. It’s not like players can only improve on ML rosters.
Does anyone wish that Neil Walker had started 2009 as our starting 3B on the theory that we needed to get a better idea of what we actually had with him?
We could also acquire information about Pedro if he were playing every day in AAA and working to fill the more obvious holes in his game (contact, defense, etc.). The only thing they absolutely can’t do is take away Pedro’s starting job without also sending him to the minors.
yep this
i have no problem with Pedro spending significant time in AAA— he sure looked like he could use it.
Only 849 AB in the minors
Not a ton of people ready for the majors with that preparation.
Viva Clemente!
This is going to be a pretty painful season to watch if Pedro is not in Pittsburgh. We’ve got placeholders at 3-4 of the starting 8 already, and can we really expect huge leaps out of Walker and Pressley? If McGahee is starting at 3B, watch Cutch and Tabata bat and then go back to Words with Friends.
We already have enough info on him
now we have to do what is best for getting the best out of him and that doesn’t include starting him all year if he’s overmatched early.
Well
I guess it is encouraging that they claim that they arent going to hand over a spot to anyone. but i find it hard to believe considering that they wont give it too him aside from a 0-1000 showing in spring. After all this is the team that one year ago handed the 1st base job to Jeff Clement, yeah he really earned that one.
im going to say this about Clement, for the 1000th time even...
the pirates were going to stink in 2010. theres no denying this. clement has absolutely nothing to prove in AAA at this point. they wanted to see his power bat in the majors and what it could do. it had nothing to do with competition, or even winning. they gave JC a shot, he failed.
move on.
by white angus on Feb 2, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah, but...
Clement was also hurt right after he was aquired, and I believe it was oblique.
There was nothing wrong with Clement given the starting nod, especially since
he didnt play his way OUT of it in spring training.
"... for the 1000th time even..."
I counted – it’s only been 633 times.
I know – I was surprised, too.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 3, 2012 9:00 AM EST up reply actions
For the sake of the franchise I hope Pedro becomes the player they thought they drafted. The team has had enough problems. Missing on that high of a draft pick sets the team back fo years. You need a franchise type player with that pick. He is the only hope for a real power hitter for a few years.
you crossed over from the darkside
i hope you learned your lesson.
by karreemofwheat on Feb 3, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
Just curious
IIRC, Pedro’s signing contract stipulated that he he be added to the 40-man roster. Granted, my knowledge of the whole option years thing is incomplete, but what slim understanding I do have is that upon being added to the 40-man, a player has three option years during which he can be yo-yo’d up and down at the club’s discretion. If all of the preceding is correct, wouldn’t his options be expired, meaning he’d have to clear waivers before being demoted?
If you need to correct me, please be gentle. I’ve had a hard day ;-)
In 2008...
when Pedro was signed…they did not have to use an option to add him to the roster, because he didn’t spend 90 days on an active professional roster, and has not played 5 full professional seasons. This qualifies him for a 4th option year.
That means if the Pirates burn an option on Pedro in the 2012 season…he’s out of options and MUST make the 2013 season Opening Day roster to remain a Pirate.
Pretty much what Thunder said.
Except, to my knowledge, the Pirates have to ask the Commissioner’s office for the 4th option year. That’s generally just a formality, though. I can’t think of an instance where the Commissioner’s office ever declined a team/player the 4th option year.
by Midnight Moose on Feb 2, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
What if ... ?
Pedro improves to about a 15 HR; 260 avg.; 770 OPS line. and McGahee goes to an avg of 25 HR, .270 avg; 790 OPS. Who sits and who hits ?
" I think this is probably the best team ever assembled. They talk about the Vince Lombardi Era, but I think the Chuck Noll Era is even greater. " - Mel Blount
That's the ideal situation if you ask me
Though I’d rather see Pedro with the 25 HR, but I’ll take what I can get at this point
Jose Tabata is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
as WTM (I think) says about the prospect of Jones sitting
there’s no law against having bench guys who can hit.
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by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 3, 2012 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
or, in this case
who can hit RHPs.
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by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 3, 2012 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
Sounds like a nice platoon.
It’s tragic that 15 HR and a .770 OPS is an acceptable projection for Pedro.
A .770 OPS for Pedro
Would be a .209 OPS improvement over what he posted, last season. That’s quite a jump. Doable, but I don’t know if a bigger jump would be realistic.
by Midnight Moose on Feb 3, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I'm not arguing that it would be a great improvement...
It’s not acceptable for a power hitting third baseman, though.
It’s going to be tough to show patience with him this year, because he is very far behind where he should be.
FWIW
These are the 3B men from 2011 who had more than 430 ABs, and posted an OPS above .770:
Adrian Beltre
Aramis Ramirez
Evan Longoria
Kevin Youkilis
Chipper Jones
Mark Reynolds
Edwin Encarnacion
And in 2010, the following 3B did it:
Beltre
Ryan Zimmerman
Longoria
David Wright
Scott Rolen
Alex Rodriguez
Omar Infante
So, actually, having a 3B man who can OPS north of .770 isn’t bad. It would put Alvarez in the top 1/3 of all MLB 3B men. The question is, can he do it?
by Midnight Moose on Feb 3, 2012 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
He might even have better D than Reynolds and Encarnacion.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 3, 2012 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
Alvarez's defense isn't great by any stretch of the imagination...
…but that’s the one area I can say he’s made big, consistent strides in since his debut.
He seems to have more than a touch of the Ronny Cedeno in him: capable of making some truly brilliant stops but then will fuck up the most routine groundball.
Jose Tabata is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
I wasn't even trying to be snarky
Just that if he hits as well as Reynolds or Encarnacion, his D will actually move him up the ranks. (And I think Chipper and Aramis probably aren’t Brooks Robinson out there these days, though Aramis’s OPS was well north of 770.)
He needs to hit, though.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 4, 2012 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
Unrealistic?
With the assumption that he learns to make contact, that is like his floor. Pedro’s hitting is either going to be terrible or good to great, I can’t see much in between.
Well, I think Pedro's floor is a .561 OPS.
Because That’s exactly what he posted, last season. And be that is it may, after looking so overmatched and lost last season, it’s going to be a long road back for Pedro. I’m not saying he can’t come back, but I am saying it’s doubtful he’s going to get everything figured out that he eventually needs to, in 75 Grapefruit League ABs.
He’s not going to come out of the gate pumping bombs everywhere. His recovery is going to be long, and painful – full of fits and starts, and plateaus.
Even if a miracle occurs, and Pedro hits in 2012 just like he did the last half of 2010, like the 2011 season never happened, he still posted a .788 OPS in 2010.
Sure, once Pedro gets everything figured out, and gets fully established, say, 2014 or so, I wouldn’t put it past Pedro to OPS .870. Or .970. But for the 2012 season, I think a .770 OPS is about the best anyone can expect.
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