Jameson Taillon vs Dylan Bundy
I did a post at FakeTeams a couple weeks back, comparing former high school pitchers Dylan Bundy of the Baltimore Orioles and Jameson Taillon of the Pittsburgh Pirates. John Sickles of Minor League Ball was kind enough to take time and answer some questions regarding the two. Check it out, any/all feedback welcome.
4 months ago
Chris Buckley
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alot of people really liking Bundy
Personally I don’t understand the love affair with him. Not very imposing size, velocity numbers seem inaccurate, hard to believe his great command is going to translate, and I have’nt really heard or seen anything great about his secondary pitches. Taillons curve looks to be a plus, plus pitch. Although Bundys mechanics seem to be flawless which is huge when it comes to young arms…
My ONLY concern when it comes to Taillon is his fastball command, so its encouraging to see the Pirates putting such an emphasis on that. All the early videos I’ve seen on him he seems to leave his fastball up in the zone (often gettin away with it but I think it could be trouble facing better hitters if he does’nt correct it).
Taillon > Bundy
Bundy
His cutter and curve both grade as plus. The excellent, repeatable mechanics make scouts believe his command will translate. I’m not sure what makes you say that the velo numbers “seem” inaccurate, but any source you look at will tell you the guy throws really hard. Personally, I don’t understand not being in love with him.
ummm
I appreciate your comment, but it seems like you didn’t read the post or if you did you just disregarded the information completely. Pretty sure Sickels touched upon all of that for me. Also I don’t understand why you would say his velocity is “inaccurate”, if you are relating to the difference between numbers at the high school and pro level, which is in the piece along with everything else, then you can’t really say that until there is some pro data. But thanks for commenting I guess.
by Chris Buckley on Feb 5, 2012 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
ummm
I said inaccurate, because every report I’ve read since before he was drafted has had him at a different velocity. I’ve seen as high as 100 and as low as 92. The article says 99, but that it’s likely it will go down in pro ball which is probably correct. So I’m going to go ahead and say his velocity is inaccurate at this point. He gave the edge in velocity to Bundy; when in all reality I’m confident in saying that Taillons velocity will be higher…
by FusilliJerry88 on Feb 6, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
Haven't
read it yet. Will in a second. First thing that popped in my head. Bundy was my #1 guy on my big board last year.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 5, 2012 10:43 PM EST reply actions
#1 overall?
nothing wrong w that ranking, anything in particular that you like over the rest of the pitchers/players?
by Chris Buckley on Feb 6, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
Yep
- overall.
Reasoning. The only flaw in his game was his size. He’s not 6’4, but who really cares? Not me. He’s a workout warrior. Monster fastball, impressive secondaries, a great changeup for a high school guy. Polish, upside, everything.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 7, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
Bundy over Cole?
Bauer, too? Are you concerned about his last season at UCLA? I agree (if I’m reading correctly) with Sickels: Taillon and Bundy are pretty much a coin toss. I like Taillon better because, all things being equal, I’d rather have the bigger guy. But I like Cole more than either one; some of that is because of his potential to move quickly through the minors.
I read the velocity loss part; is there any explanation for that? Better regulated mounds? More accurate guns?
Nice article! I’ve never been to FakeTeams before; I may have to start looking there occaisonally (though I think you guys are way more hardcore about fantasy than I am).
velocity loss
I think the velo loss in the amateur-to-pro conversion is generally because pro teams have their pitchers dial the effort down a bit to increase command and/or maintain strength over a tougher schedule (both more frequent starts and longer seasons).
also
there could be variation simply because of at what point they record the velocity, whether it is closer to the release point or when the ball is crossing the plate. Thanks for commenting and reading!
by Chris Buckley on Feb 6, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Yes
I take Bundy over Cole. I think Cole is a solid pitcher who has a huge arm and the potential to be a true ace that can log 200+ innings consistently, so there is no real knock on him, I just prefer Bundy’s command.
With regards to Bauer his approach is a big + for me. He appears to be more cerebral than Cole, and since baseball is essentially a game of science and math, Ill take the pitcher who has an advanced understanding of both.
I appreciate you taking the time to read and comment! Definitely check for more work at FakeTeams, Jason Hunt and Craig Goldstein cover prospects too, and we just merged with RotoHardball so the content is going to grow even more!
by Chris Buckley on Feb 6, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
from what Ive read...
Cole is the only one of the 3 you mentioned that can, or has, kept the upper 90mph heat from first pitch to last. he was still hitting near 3 digits in the 8th inning of college games without much effort.
this, IMO, is a fantastic selling point for taking him #1
Bundy is clearly a stud
having said that, I hate him. I really dislike him. I want bad things to happen to him…professionally at least-it would be sadistic to wish ill upon somebody I’ve never met in their personal lives but I feel OK saying I hope he just takes his couple million dollar signing bonus and has to “retire” at 25, oh poor him.
Maybe it wasn’t true but I just remember Bundy telling the Pirates not to draft him. That just sounds really, annoyingly arrogant to me. I hated when Eli Manning did it with the Charges a few years back, I hated when JD Drew did it to the Phillies (and I hate Philly almost as much as I hate Baltimore) and if I were old enough, I would have hated it when Elway did it to the Colts. The truth is if you are really as great an athlete as these guys all assumed that they were, you should be happy to go to whatever team has the rights to draft you. That’s how drafts work. If you don’t like it, suck it up and then leave as a free agent AFTER you prove that you’re the next Roy Halladay and not the next Brien Taylor.
So ultimately, I would take Taillon every day of the week. Not because of any scouting report or plus tool or anything like that. I would take Taillon because I think Dylan Bundy is a punk and I hope he spends the next 5 years toiling through the minor leagues riding around on cramped, smelly low minors bus rides while he gets lit up like a Christmas Tree.
by KentuckyPirate on Feb 6, 2012 10:00 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I love the smell of vitriol in the morning
Seriously, that’s a quality rant.
I completely forgot about him not approving the Pirates...
Didn’t it have something to do with long-toss?
I think the preference for Bundy comes down to the new-shiny toy in the box… and that Taillon will be seen as the superior prospect once he is able to use his full repertoire at will.
I could feel his muscle tissues collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm. ~~ Mike Tyson
that's a little much
Bundy has a training program that he wants to stick to, so he politely asked teams not to draft him if they wouldn’t let him stick to it. That seems completely reasonable to me. It’s not like he just doesn’t like the Pirates.
meh
i side with KyP’s point of view on this. The draft system doesn’t give him the luxury, which is besides the point that there’s no guarantee his program works anyway. I’ll take the less-arrogant guy.
yea I can't agree wit that
how is it arrogant to be comfortable with a methodology and routine and not want that changed? As a fan you should be happy that he came out and stated he was not interested in signing with any teams that would have tried to change his training program. The repercussions of having a player who is not comfortable with team philosophy can be far more damaging. Pretty sure the Pittsburgh brass respected his honesty, they could’ve drafted him and then he could’ve informed them that he was not going to adhere to their rules and regulations and therefore would not sign. What then? It would’ve resulted in a wasted #1 overall pick.
by Chris Buckley on Feb 6, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
because he is going to be PAID to be a pitcher now
Bundy should man-up and do what the bosses tell him. period.
Right
because organizations ALWAYS know what the best program is for pitchers. Ask Tyler Matzek how that worked out.
Sorry
I realize what I said was quite a bit over the snark line, but I think that people aren’t looking at the full part of this question. Organizations ruin pitchers all of the time because many of them have a “program” that they want all pitchers to adhere to, no matter how different a pitcher or player might be from the rest. Basically, if the Pirates are that stubborn in regards to their program, and insisting that a pitcher like Bundy stick to it no matter what, then they are just as guilty as he is of being bull-headed.
Anyway
I’m not here to debate personal views and interpret what his intentions were. I posted this to give insight to two of the most highly regarded pitching prospects to come through the draft in recent memory. I’d rather keep the discussion to baseball.
by Chris Buckley on Feb 6, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
The draft absolutely does give him the luxury. Or are you and KyP also hoping that Gerrit Cole fails because he didn’t want to sign with the Yankees? Or maybe you guys hope that Pedro Alvarez continues to suck because he’s not playing for the Red Sox? Players don’t have to sign with the teams that draft them, and letting certain teams know ahead of time that you’d prefer not to be picked by them saves everyone a huge hassle. It’s not arrogance, at all. If anything, it was courtesy.
I don't think Alvarez or Cole
are fair comparisons. Those two players declined to sign because they hoped to improve their draft stock. For one thing, Cole has been a lifelong Yankee fan IIRC. The difference here is that Bundy wasn’t saying that he didn’t want to be drafted by the Pirates because he wanted to go to college or because he wanted to improve his draft status (we’d be talking about the #1 overall pick). Bundy’s claim that he didn’t want to come to Pittsburgh was specifically about not wanting to sign with this organization.
Now, you can say that it’s because he doesn’t like the team’s methodology or training techniques, but again that strikes me as a little arrogant. If that’s the case, then we have an 18 year old who has never thrown a professional pitch saying “I’m gonna do things my way and I don’t want to change or else I’m going to take my ball and go home.” The Pirates are a professional baseball team (insert obvious joke here) and they have a medical staff and a development staff that has decades of experience working with players. Not only that, the organization doesn’t prohibit long toss as Bundy suggested. Completely removing my personal feelings about the Pirates from the situation, I think it could be a red flag because it might show a kid who doesn’t take instruction well. Refusing to even try another training technique that professionals have come up with could wind up biting him in the ass if he ever gets to the point where he needs to make an adjustment because he can’t get by on his own talent anymore. Isn’t that at least possible?
Since I have already come out in favor of Taillon for the reasons explained above, you may choose to take this with a grain of salt, but I’d rather have JT for baseball reasons, too. IMO, Taillon’s curve is the best pitch that either of the two players throws and I like the fact that he has more of the traditional workhorse pitcher’s frame. I think both players are A prospects, so you can’t really go wrong with either but that’s just my two cents…
by KentuckyPirate on Feb 6, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
J.D. Drew
I think him spurning Philly (or Aaron Crowe and Washington) is a closer comparison than Alvarez or Cole (though still not perfect; both those guys were about the money as opposed to improving draft status). John Elway or Eli Manning are a little more similar if I can use the NFL. It wasn’t a huge story, but I can’t recall any draft prospect warning a team away because of their training/developmental methods (as opposed to the team being cheap or having a history of sucking or something).
That’s not Drew’s fault. He gave the Phillies the number that it’d take for him to sign pre-draft, and they ignored him and picked him anyway, then acted shocked that he didn’t want to sign for less.
In their defense
There have been countless number of similar cases where the guy has said that before, but things change after the draft. Not the same example, but look at Josh Bell. He said one thing that seemed pretty damn adamant pre-draft, but then signed anyway
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
i have no clue what you're saying here
the draft gives him the luxury to sign or not sign. It gives him no right to choose. I believe Bundy’s comments were “talk”- the kind that is cheap. If Pittsburgh was picking lower, and picked him, he would have signed. (Like one Josh Bell.) If he wouldn’t have signed with Pittsburgh, the way I’d want him to do it is to keep his mouth shut, let the FO know when they contacted him and let things unfold accordingly.
(I should clarify though that when I said I side with KyP’s comments, I don’t hope for Bundy to fail, as KyP said— I don’t care for his comments, or about him. If he busts, I’m not going to feel particularly sad— not that that matters in the least.)
+1
basically. The same went for Bauer. Both are products of biomechanics and if a team doesn’t support their training methods there is nothing wrong with that player requesting they not draft them.
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