Pirates Could Trade For A.J. Burnett
We've heard the Pirates connected to Burnett before, but Ken Rosenthal thinks that current circumstances with both the Pirates and Yankees would be conducive to a trade, with the Pirates failing to get Edwin Jackson or Roy Oswalt and the Yankees wanting to shed salary. Rosenthal does note, however, that previous contact between the two teams "perhaps only qualified as due diligence," so who knows. Burnett can't block a trade to the Pirates.
UPDATE: A lot of the discussion about this is focusing on the possibility of dealing Garrett Jones for Burnett. Even assuming such a deal would be favorable to the Pirates from a financial perspective, what sense would that make? It would just create an even bigger hole at first base than the one the Pirates already have.
4 months ago
Charlie Wilmoth
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price?
So what price are you guys comfortable paying? The more the Yankees pay of his remaining salary, the more talent the Pirates need to give up. The less the Yankees pay, the less the Pirates give up. What would you propose?
What would you propose?
I propose that we agree to take on $10-12M of his salary (total, not per year), give up nothing of value, and smile and walk away if the Yankees want to try and do better elsewhere.
Pretty close to my feeling
I’d go as high as 14 to 15 though, as long as the return was out of our top 25. Or how about offering them a swingman like Correia and take on a few million more.
by ballparkfranks on Feb 8, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
Or how about offering them a swingman like Correia and take on a few million more.
Given that they’re trying to dump an overpaid starting pitcher already, and that they’ll be putting another starter (either Garcia or Hughes) in their pen, it seems pretty certain that they won’t have any interest in Correia.
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
"Matt Cooke and Evgeni Malkin for Brian Boyle, Derek Stepan, Brandon Dubinsky, Mike Rupp, and a first round pick." -JackCampbell
How many brooks would a Brooks Laich like if a Brooks Laich could like brooks?
Two years into their careers and they’re already failures?
by thecheeseisblue on Feb 8, 2012 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
failing doesn't mean failures
But guys can fail after two years — not a pitcher, but Joey Schoenfeld did.
I think the only 2009 HS draftee who I’d consider to be failing at this point is Trent Stevenson, though, since Victor Black was out of college.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 8, 2012 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
Well, 2.5
Most of those guys played the year they were drafted.
But anyway, it’s certainly possible to be failing – in the process of failure – after that much time. Plenty of 2009 draftees are already out of baseball. Many more will be after 2012. The Pirates should know which of their 2009 draftees are headed towards that outcome, and if possible get some value before they start packing groceries.
And what makes sense to me
Is to skew towards taking on more cash so as to give up less valuable prospects. Not $33M, of course, but 2 years at $4M per would be worth keeping the Yanks out of our top 20 list.
He’s very likely to produce 1 win each year, so even $4M per is acceptable value. If he produces 3 WAR over 2 years for $8M total, that’s surplus value around $5M (which, incidentally, covers Correia’s waste salary).
The only question is what kind of prospect we give up at that price. The only way I go above 2/8 is if that means the prospect is a non-prospect – a guy whose ceiling is middle relief or half-season fill-in.
right
As I alluded to in the Garrett Jones thread, if you get above something like 2/12, the Yankees better be sending over prospects themselves.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 8, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
just as Buster suggests
I’d totally be willing to part with Garrett Jones so they could use him as DH and bench piece were they to pay 90% of his salary. Burnett is a CLEAR rebound candidate. get him out of that park and out of that division and he’s a 3 WAR pitcher
Hold on
If Jones goes, who plays 1B? Hague/McGehee? If McGehee doesn’t bounce back, that tandem could cancel out any value Burnett provides.
I"m not saying Jones is untouchable (and I like that he has no impact on our future, unlike some guy from AA), but right now we kind of need him at 1B. I’d be willing to trade him for a piece that helps our future, but trading one short term, good-not-great player for another (who costs more) seems like a weird way to tread water.
Jeff Clement could do what Jones does.
The guy’s Carlos Pena pretty much. (Sarcasm)
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
Yeah. I’m not opposed to trading Burnett, but giving up Jones just seems like filling one hole and opening another.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Feb 8, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
still a Nick Evans guy
Evans .7 WAR in 194 ABs. just turned 26.
IMO – the difference between Nick Evans full time at 1B vs Garrett Jones platoon with two of them < value than the difference between AJ Burnett in our Starting Rotation instead of Kevin Correia. like a lot less.
I think Nick Evans over a full season gives you at least 2 WAR. Bill James has him projected to improve and to have a .336 wOBA next year. I’d take it!
I was thinking of Evans
I just get itchy with him as Plan A because I kind of view McGehee as Plan C and Hague as Plan D (or E).
I’m fine with putting someone else ahead of Jones on the depth chart, partly because I feel confident that Jones can step up and provide competent, if below average, 1B for as long as necessary (esp. if you can platoon him). But with him gone, I feel like it’s question marks all the way down.
Nick Evans is all right, but his cousin will always be better in my book
by gonfalon on Feb 8, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
i thought 1B was already a hole WITH jones on board, which is why many wanted Lee back.
gaining a needed SP solves one problem, not gaining a SP still leaves at least 2.
I agree that they don't really need Jones...
but the Yankees seem to think that they need someone similar to him (that is to say, a lefty 1B/OF/DH-type with some power). Otherwise, why all these rumors of them potentially signing someone like Damon or Ibanez?
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
"Matt Cooke and Evgeni Malkin for Brian Boyle, Derek Stepan, Brandon Dubinsky, Mike Rupp, and a first round pick." -JackCampbell
How many brooks would a Brooks Laich like if a Brooks Laich could like brooks?
precisely
andruw jones is old and right handed. it’s not a stretch to think they wouldnt want jones to play DH against RH pitching. it’s not a stretch at all actually and that’s why even buster f’n posey proposed that
buster f'n olney
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Feb 8, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
Jones was my first thought too..
but I discussed with a buddy and the Yanks just picked up Branyan as a NRI. Pretty much the same player.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
For the record
Here’s my take on Burnett: Even aside from the NL/AL, Yankees Stadium/PNC Park switch that should help, this is a guy who’s never xFIPed above 4.50 in a healthy season, has xFIPed under 4.00 3 of the last 5 seasons, and has thrown more than 186 IP each of the last 4 years. He’s a workhorse and he’s at least competent. He basically guarantees that Correia never sees another start as a Pirate, he provides inning insurance for the bullpen, and he makes it much less likely that an inadequate Lincoln, Locke, or McPherson gets run out to get killed (because there will be that many fewer starts to go to marginal 6th/7th/8th SPs).
Also, if he does bounce back, with a 2/8 deal he’s a very attractive trade piece. Not that we’d get a ton, but we’d probably get back more than we give up.
by JRoth95 on Feb 8, 2012 3:24 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
What he said.
Exactly how I feel.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
I think Burnett makes 16.5M annually. The Yankees would need to cover at least 22M over the next two years for me to be interested. That would usually seem unlikely, but if they’re really pinching pennies to grab some combination of Damon, Chavez, and Matsui, it’s not impossible that Cashman would do it.
Burnett might not be horrible for us. Going from Yankee Stadium to PNC would be helpful; it would probably go a long way toward bringing down his terrible HR numbers.
No jinx no jinx no jinx.
Damon. Chavez. Matsui. Ibanez. Burnett. I feel like I just hopped in a time machine to 2004 or something.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Feb 8, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with you, but the Yankees are apparently serious. Think about it; Chavez, Damon, Andruw Jones, Jeter, A-Rod, Rivera … if this were 2004, the Yankees would be loaded.
No jinx no jinx no jinx.
by Suffering Buc on Feb 8, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
,,,Da Meat Hook...
Agreed.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
also at the link
Burnett’s contract allows him to block trades to 10 clubs, but the Yankees can send him to the Pirates without restriction; Pittsburgh is not one of the teams on his no-trade list, a source said.
Maybe he just forgot
Or took it for granted that the Pirates wouldn’t be trading for a $16.5M/year SP.
by JRoth95 on Feb 8, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
“Give me a break, Cashman. You know I meant to put that on there.”
by Charlie Wilmoth on Feb 8, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought the standard, MLBPA-certified no-trade clause form came with Pittsburgh per-printed.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
by WTM on Feb 8, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
“Pirates” is the RSTLNE of no-trade clauses.
bestweekever.tv
by Dan H on Feb 8, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Wow, took a minute
but that was nice. I was half a step away from heading to Urban Dictionary to see what the heck RSTLNE stood for. Well done, Mr. H
by Wizard of Woz on Feb 8, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
He HAD to figure he'd have to be
screwing someone’s wife (like Cashman’s or summat) before he’d be traded to Pittsburgh.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 8, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
if pirates isn't in his no trade claus....
i’d like to know what other team he put on instead? perhaps he took his role as a yankee too far and put boston on instead?
With all FA options exhausted, I wouldn’t mind seeing it done if the Yankees are willing to take a below-value prospect for the Pirates to eat more of Burnett’s salary. Not only would moving him out of the AL East help, but I think his struggles have been overstated. However, I don’t want to see any players of value going the other way if the Pirates take on, say, $20M of his remaining salary. I wouldn’t expect that to happen, but I doubt Cashman would let Burnett get away easily.
At this point, though, it might be worth it just for the opportunity to move Correia out of the rotation.
He makes 16.5M
and we were willing to give EJ roughly 10M per year. I would expect the Yanks to eat a little more if we are sending them anything of true “value” in return. So something like we pay him 8M a year is fine with me.
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
if this trade of Burnett for Jones were to happen, watch and see…i can just see it now. Jose Bautista 2.0…. a majority of pirate fans would be happy to see him gone (granted, if its a good return) due to his streakyness in a pirate uniform and his inability to hit left handed pitching. but then he’ll end up putting up great numbers with the yanks (see Bautista, Jose in toronto) and people will then tack him onto the list of the "Pirates trading away players once they get good" just like they catagorize Bautista nowadays. personally, I don’t think Jones’ potential has been tapped into completely and this would be pretty much giving up on his development as a power hitter. but thats just me
i bet you...
… that if the trade happens, Jones puts up worse numbers than he did in Pitt and with less ABs, and that he’ll be a journeyman 1Bman by 2015
2014
If not 2013.
Remember, he’s not young, and he’s got fairly old player skills.
Honestly, if he ends up getting 400+ PAs for us in 2012 at his normal level, he’s probably non-tendered for 2013 anyway, because he’ll be due for $4M, which is simply too much for what he is.
umm just remember that Bautista’s breakout 54 HR year in 2010, he was at age 30. guess how old garrett jones is now? 06 to 08 bautista was a bucco (I am not counting the 11 games played in 05 as a full season) and jones 09 to 11 for three years here so far. garrett jones for those 3 seasons…21, 21, 16 in HRs. bautista with 16, 15, 12 (yeah its in a tad less more games played than jones). both utility guys with the pirates than have never really had “set” positions here….bautista with 3B and all three OF positions, jones at 1B and LF/RF. bautista a .241 hitter as a bucco and jones a .257 hitter as a pirate. all i will say is that is jones were to leave and go someplace else and hes a 30+ home run guy, I won’t say I told you so
Really though....
Even though Garrett is the same age as Joey Bats was when he had his breakout year, what are the odds that it would happen twice, to the same franchise?
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
The odds are steep enough that I'd jump ship and become a....
Nope, can’t think of a shittier fan existence.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
-Earl Weaver
If Garrett Jones wins MVP, I’ll destroy Iran’s nuclear facilities myself and stop AIDS in central Africa, too.
No jinx no jinx no jinx.
by Suffering Buc on Feb 8, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
If you have those powers
how about you just make the Pirates good? Or even just teach Pedro to lay off the outside curve?
What makes you think that stuff is harder than making the Pirates good?
by maguro on Feb 8, 2012 4:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 6 recs
Gotta start SOMEplace, yes?
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 8, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
i think Garrett Jones is a little too much unless they're covering 20+mil..
would Daniel Mccutchen be a guy they would take? this is a win-win as we drop that extra bullpen guy and we wouldnt have to distinguish between Cutches or is it Cutch’s or Cutchers or …
the Pirates coverage of such a deal would have to include the first initial in all headlines
because a lead of simply “Yankees Acquire McCutchen for for Burnett” would cause mass panic and gnashing of teeth
And I’m sure about 80 percent of Yankees fans would look at that headline and be like, “Yep, fair deal.”
by Charlie Wilmoth on Feb 8, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I love the thought of giving them back Daniel McCutchen.
Ok, you gave us McCutchen in the Xavier Nady trade, now we’ll let you have him back for AJ Burnett.
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
jones would hit in that band box
so lets say 6 million this year and 5 million for aj second year
"please buy the team mr. cuban"
"... properly used."
So, never gonna happen then, right?
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 8, 2012 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
Please no.
He is a malcontent who hasn’t done anything in the past two years except watch his numbers worsen.
Proud fan of Pittsburgh's professional sports teams and the Pirates too.
Burnett 1.43 whip - Jackson 1.42
if willing to pay 10mil for one ..i think 8 mil and a nothing prospect for the other is ok
Speaking of high risk pitchers...
Peter Gammons reported that Rich Harden, a guy that some here wanted to go after, had a visit with Dr. Andrews this week. That’s right…he’s gonna miss 2012.
Heh.
Guess I screwed that one up pretty badly (I might have been the biggest proponent of taking a flyer on him on this site). In any case, here’s hoping this isn’t Bedard in a week…
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
"Matt Cooke and Evgeni Malkin for Brian Boyle, Derek Stepan, Brandon Dubinsky, Mike Rupp, and a first round pick." -JackCampbell
How many brooks would a Brooks Laich like if a Brooks Laich could like brooks?
Imagine my surprise.
.
I don’t know how many times I and others can voice it: He’s F _ CKING TOAST.
Please, posters: STOP advocating for Harden.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 9, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
I like Burnett for Jones
Lets face it neither one is a long term solution. We aren’t going to be able to trade Jones for that much, but if AJ has a bounce back year, we might be able to flip him for a couple of prospects. We would have a very deep rotation which would be great considering our pitchers all over extended themselves last year. You have a handful of options at 1B, this would free up for the Young feel good story. Or the Pirates could turn around and trade for a 1B that would be a solution for the future. Jones for Burnett and then some prospects for Trumbo and you have a little bit more hope going into 2012.
if the $$ makes sense.....
…..you trade Jones in a heartbeat! There has been much back and forth on this blog about Jones and his value-it would appear many feel GJ is a platoon player w/ limited upside. If so, how do you NOT trade that type of player for the “potential” of a SP who can give you 200+ innings and “should” enjoy more success pitching in the NL?? If the Pirates feel they cannot somehow replace a player like GJ then they should fold…and I love GJ by the way.
exactly
I also feel that Nick Evans entering his age 26 season is a better bet than Garrett Jones at this point. Evans has already sort of proven to be viable and could develop into a legitimate MLB 1B. He’s already more than good enough with defense bsr and his numbers indicate that they will improve! I LOVE NICK EVANS MAKE HIM THE EVERY DAY STARTER
We could replace him
if we had an offseason to work with, instead of it being a week from spring training
We could really regret not getting Burnett
I just looked through his stats. Everyone was under the strong assumption that he wasn’t living up to the billing. Sure he signed for a ton of money and posted a plus 5 era. That is pretty awful. However, he still had 173 ks last year. A 8.18 K/9 was far better than any of our starters last year. The big problem was he gave up way too many homers in the hitter friendly Yankees stadium. Also he pitched in the AL East which scored more runs than any other division in baseball. Put him in a hitter friendly ball park, add a strong defense, throw in a few extra strikeouts by facing the pitcher and put him in a division where he is going to face the Astros(worst team in baseball) Cubs(rebuilding and no power) Cardinals(minus the best hitter in baseball) Brewers (minus Prince and Braun for 50 games) and a good Reds team that still doesn’t match up with the lineups he was facing in the East and all of a sudden you have a pitcher who still has good stuff who is still overpaid but cuts his homers given up in half, strikesout 200+ and coupled with Bedard gives the Pirates a nice 1-2 combo.
I agree
wholeheartedly put its about the money the yanks will eat.
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