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Here's Grant Brisbee's piece on PECOTA's new comparables. I wasn't sure how seriously to take PECOTA anymore, but I went ahead and looked at the comparables themselves, because, well, I'm a dork.

They're highly amusing. Jose Tabata's top comp is Rickey Henderson. Jake Fox's top comp is -- and no, I'm not kidding -- Orlando Cepeda. (Nick Evans' is Chris Shelton, which hardly seems fair. Good luck competing with Jake Fox, buddy!) Gorkys Hernandez's second comp is Torii Hunter. Eric Fryer's top comp is Craig Biggio, and his third comp is Thurman Munson. Erik Bedard's top comp is Steve Carlton. Two of Kevin Correia's top three comps are Bob Welch and Vida Blue. Chris Resop's top two are Joel Hanrahan and Goose Gossage. Minor-league signee Kyle Cofield's top comp is Jason Isringhausen.

It's all subscriber-only, but I recommend you go ahead and subscribe, purely for the comedy.

4 months ago Charlie_tiny Charlie Wilmoth 29 comments 1 recs  | 

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BUY THE TEAM.

bestweekever.tv

by Dan H on Feb 8, 2012 4:55 PM EST reply actions  

Right. Although I guarantee PECOTA will project the Pirates to lose around 90 games, because someone is at least going to laugh-test those.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Feb 8, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually, wait

Are we sure they’re not comparing them to Steve Carlton, Ricky Henderson and Craig Biggio in 2012?

bestweekever.tv

by Dan H on Feb 8, 2012 5:24 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

Correia’s pitching also makes me Blue. Now it all makes sense!

by Charlie Wilmoth on Feb 8, 2012 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

that doesn't make me drink...

… what makes me drink is the fact that even Doug Drabek (27.6 career bWAR), arguably the best Pirates starting pitcher of the last 25+ years and the last real ace we’ve had, pales in comparison to both Vida Blue (43.8 bWAR) and Bob Welch (41.9 bWAR).

Gerritt Cole and Jameson Taillon can’t get here soon enough :agreed:

by gonfalon on Feb 8, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

It's the org

I don’t know how to find it quickly (or maybe at all), but have the Pirates ever had a career 40+ WAR pitcher? I can’t think of a likely candidateª. It’s just one of these weird things, less flukey than the Mets never having had a no-hitter, but basically inexplicable, given the 130 year history.

ª and if they’ve had 1 or 2 in a century-plus, that doesn’t really change my point

by JRoth95 on Feb 8, 2012 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, they've had a few

Bob Friend is the career leader in bWAR with 49.9

by KentuckyPirate on Feb 8, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

(Bob Friend put up about 50 WAR with the Pirates, according to BB-ref.)

by Charlie Wilmoth on Feb 8, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I was wondering

i knew they had a couple decent guys in the 60s, but I wasn’t sure if anyone was good for long enough. ~50 WAR is certainly solid (although, again, not amazing given that we’ve had 400-500 SP-seasons to distribute.

Now that I think about it, it’s also funny given that we played in a not very hitter-friendly park for ~60 years. Actually, we’ve never had a truly hitter-friendly park, have we? Weird.

by JRoth95 on Feb 8, 2012 6:18 PM EST up reply actions  

wowsa

I picked up another tidbit after you piqued my interest:
“Forbes Field, home of the Pittsburgh Pirates from the middle of the 1909 season until the middle of the 1970 season, is the only long-term home field where a no-hitter was never thrown during its existence.”
per wikipedia.

by BlindSquirrel on Feb 8, 2012 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

That's right!

I heard that somewhere along the line.

by JRoth95 on Feb 8, 2012 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Oddly enough, Friend is the player to accumulate the most pitching WAR while in a Pirates uniform, but not the pitcher to accumulate the most WAR as a Pirate. Friend was apparently a pretty bad hitter, even for a pitcher, and BR has his total falling from 49.9 as a Pirate to 44.3 once you factor in hitting/fielding. Babe Adams, OTOH, was a better than average hitter for his position, raising his WAR from 45.9 (pitching only) to 47 (everything), making him the leader at the position.

For fun, here’s the highest career WARs of everyone who pitched at least 1/3 of an inning for the Pirates, according to Baseball Gauge (I’m using their metric as I can’t do the same type of search on BR):

Honus Wagner 139.94271
Bert Blyleven 97.06414
Pud Galvin 89.83845
Dazzy Vance 70.95121
Jim Bunning 69.01391
Rube Waddell 67.06919
Luis Tiant 62.49757
Babe Adams 62.38269
Rick Reuschel 61.58766
Jim McCormick 61.40407
Burleigh Grimes 61.28929
Waite Hoyt 59.92822
Guy Hecker 59.09528
Gus Weyhing 56.89412
Adonis Terry 56.3182
Silver King 55.24695
Vic Willis 55.17828
Wilbur Wood 51.09309
Deacon Phillippe 51.05199
Claude Passeau 50.49814
Elmer Smith 48.11098
Wilbur Cooper 47.5008
Bob Friend 47.07174
Ed Morris 46.7126
Jack Chesbro 46.01114
Red Lucas 45.64077
Sam McDowell 45.59184
Pink Hawley 45.20804
Rich Gossage 45.0814

Yes, Wagner is #1. He pitched all of 8 1/3 innings for the team over two years. Heh.

Lot of very good and even great pitchers in that list, but many of them spent very little time with the Pirates. Galvin might be the best pitcher who spent a significant amount of time with the team, by the numbers, but 19th century pitching WARs (particularly pre-1893) are wonky, and I wouldn’t put too much stock in them. Blyleven’s case is well known, and he didn’t spend that much time with the team, but it was still more than the Pirate careers of Vance, Bunning, Waddell, and Tiant (maybe even combined, without looking too closely).

If I was going to pick the greatest Pirates pitcher of all time, it’d probably be… Oh, I dunno, I’ll chicken out and say it’s a toss up between probably Adams, Phillippe, Cooper, and Friend, with I guess Galvin somewhere in that mix too, but he’s very hard to compare to them.

So yeah, some very good guys, but an underwhelming list of candidates for as old as this franchise is.

Of course the greatest pitcher to every pitch for a professional Pittsburgh baseball team would have to be either Smokey Joe Williams or Satchel Paige.

by Brian_E on Feb 8, 2012 10:54 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Forbes was very triples-friendly.

by Vlad on Feb 8, 2012 11:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I was gonna say

Forbes was just brutal on RH power (ask Maz, except when it really really counted), but there was a hella lot of green for the OFs to cover. They had to play relatively deep in LF and CF because anything that got by you out there was at least a triple. That left a lot of room for singles to drop in and spoil no-hitters.

Just curious, how many of you guys (besides me) ever saw a game at Forbes?

by bucdaddy on Feb 9, 2012 12:45 AM EST up reply actions  

my dad worked for the press.

i went to alot of games, sadly i have no memory. i remember going to the WS games in 71.

by karreemofwheat on Feb 9, 2012 7:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Not me.

I wasn’t even born until ’79.

I’ve checked out the remaining wall and home plate, of course.

by Vlad on Feb 9, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

The wall is very cool

and I like that they have a little league field right behind it. Home plate is less cool to me since they had to move it…

by KentuckyPirate on Feb 9, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Huh. That's not the guy

I would have guessed. Probably would have suggested Law.

by bucdaddy on Feb 9, 2012 12:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Wait - have I got my Bob Welches mixed up?

NOT this guy?
.

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 8, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm actually glad PECOTA didn't laugh-test those

kudos to Brisbee and yourself for pointing them out to us, Charlie :thu:

by gonfalon on Feb 8, 2012 5:42 PM EST reply actions  

These comps make a certain amount of sense when you remember that we broke up the ’27 Yankees to make way for these guys.

Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!

by WTM on Feb 8, 2012 6:23 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Erik Bedard and Steve Carlton

Did they include relationship with the press as one of the variables?

Érik Bédard Toujours!

by Mary1966 on Feb 8, 2012 7:35 PM EST reply actions  

since we have Cofield we can ..

now trade Hanny and not be afraid of who will step into the closers role AND looks like 1st base problem is solved if we just let Fox play!

by patient pirate on Feb 8, 2012 7:54 PM EST reply actions  

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