Bucs Trade Gonzalez, Lillibridge for LaRoche, Romak
Adam LaRoche (MLB.com)
The Pirates have apparently traded Mike Gonzalez and an unnamed player for Adam LaRoche. LaRoche just needs to take a physical. We should know soon who the other player is. Seriously, I can barely contain my excitement. Actually, I hardly even know how to feel right now. The last time I felt this good about a Pirates move was when they got Gonzalez back and got Freddy Sanchez in the Jeff Suppan deal. And in this case, I don't even know who the second player is.
UPDATE 5:11 PM: ESPN has a story up that doesn't mention a second player and says it's just LaRoche for Gonzalez. I doubt that's true, given that the Braves acquired Rafael Soriano since refusing a one-for-one trade back in December, but there it is. The Atlanta Journal Constitution (registration required) reports the Post-Gazette's version of the story, but the two papers seem to have sources in common.
UPDATE 5:16 PM: ESPN's story now says it doesn't know whether other players are involved.
UPDATE 5:25 PM: The Trib thinks the unnamed player might be Chris Duffy, although I'm not sure whether they have any reason to think that other than what we already know, which is that the Braves have shown interest in Duffy.
UPDATE 5:45 PM: KDKA reports that it's LaRoche for Gonzalez and a minor league pitcher. If that's the case, this is a fantastic trade - Brad Lincoln hasn't been around yet long enough to be dealt, and other than that, the Pirates don't really have any high-upside pitching prospects in the minors. If this is true, the worst-case scenario is that the Pirates lose Todd Redmond or Dave Davidson or something, which I can definitely live with.
UPDATE 5:52 PM The Pirates' website is reporting the trade, adding that
UPDATE 5:59 PM: I feel like I'm playing a game of Clue or something. The Trib:
The agents for Pirates outfielder/first baseman Ryan Doumit and centerfielder Chris Duffy said they have not been told their clients are involved in the trade. Pitchers Paul Maholm and Sean Burnett said they are not part of the deal.
UPDATE 6:06 PM: From Macon.com:
The additional player is most likely Pirates center fielder Chris Duffy, but neither the LaRoches nor Pittsburgh sources were able to confirm that. Industry sources said the player might also be a pitcher.
UPDATE 7:11 PM: Thanks to JimBibbySweat and Matskralc, who tracked this down. Apparently the trade is Gonzalez and Brent Lillibridge for LaRoche and minor-league outfielder Jamie Romak, who played last year in the South Atlantic League. This dampens my enthusiasm a bit, but less than you might think. Unlike Andrew McCutchen, say, Lillibridge is already relatively old - he'll play next year at 23. He seems to have a broad base of skills, but power isn't really one of them. I like Lillibridge a lot and am sorry to lose him, but I see him as someone who can be a solid player, not someone who can be a star. Meanwhile, the Pirates at least have some modicum of infield depth - not a ton, and Lillibridge was their best middle infield prospect, but some.
Romak, meanwhile, isn't just a throw-in. Here are his numbers last year at Rome, in the same league where Lillibridge started the year:
348 AB 26 2B 16 HR 59 BB 102 K .247/.369/.471
Obviously, that needs work, but Romak is two years younger than Lillibridge, and he possesses two skills that most other Pirates prospects lack: the ability to hit the ball hard, and the ability to take a walk. It's not easy to hit that many homers and draw that many walks in Rome, which is a very tough park for pitchers.
The main problems with Romak, at least as far as the Pirates are concerned, are as follows. He's been moved a lot from position to position, so he's probably not good defensively. Also, he's a righty who hit lefties harder than righties last year. Romak's strikeouts are also pretty likely to cause problems as Romak moves up the chain. Unlike with Brad Eldred, though, the walks give me hope that he knows what he's doing at the plate and isn't just a big guy who can hit the ball hard. The plusses for this guy outweigh the minuses so far.
Speaking of being a big guy, Romak is listed at 6'1", 220. Baseball America has this to say:
Bill Ballew: They're all big boys, no doubt. If they can avoid swinging as if they're trying to cut down a tree with one swing of the ax, they could lose a lot of balls over the fences at the game's highest levels.
Actually, I have a feeling that I'll start to have second thoughts about this deal in a couple hours, but I'll try to keep reminding myself about what we got: a young, left-handed, 30-homer player who finished in the Top 10 in the NL in OPS last year. I like Lillibridge a lot and am more concerned with losing him than with losing Gonzalez, but Lillibridge is still barely out of Class A ball, has never shown much power and has been old for his levels. If the Pirates had some magic plan to compete in 2010, this wouldn't be the best deal, but they don't, so I won't worry too much about this.
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84 comments
Comments
re: PTBNL?
by johnnycuff on Jan 17, 2007 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
IT'S ABOUT FREAKIN TIME
by matskralc on Jan 17, 2007 4:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Whoa, no joke?
by Willton on Jan 17, 2007 4:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe it
by Charlie on Jan 17, 2007 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am hoping the Pirates aren't trading damaged
by JimBibbySweat on Jan 17, 2007 5:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Duffy v. McLouth is a wash
by Willton on Jan 17, 2007 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
McLouth vs Duffy
by JimBibbySweat on Jan 17, 2007 5:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It may be moot
by Charlie on Jan 17, 2007 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Trade
by bryanzane on Jan 17, 2007 5:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The banner
by WTM on Jan 17, 2007 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
by ILLZ on Jan 17, 2007 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LaRoche
I hope the minor league pitcher isn't Sharpless, that guy has an awesome offspeed out pitch.
by JimBibbySweat on Jan 17, 2007 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Holding my breath...
by ILLZ on Jan 17, 2007 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brad Lincoln is actually a possibility
Jeremy Bonderman is the last player that was traded like this.
However, I hope for Pirates fans that this isn't the case.
by Red Eyed Jake on Jan 17, 2007 6:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Again, not a PTBNL
by Willton on Jan 17, 2007 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
(crosses fingers and toes)
by bucdaddy on Jan 17, 2007 6:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Brent Lillibridge
by JimBibbySweat on Jan 17, 2007 6:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If true
by matskralc on Jan 17, 2007 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hosed
I'll probably feel slightly better about this deal in a day or two, but we have just been sentenced to Jack Wilson for the remainder of his feeble, hitless wonder career. What the hell would the Pirates want Romak for? I like him a bit myself, but they just acquired another Craig Wilson type without the versatility.
Does anyone know why Romak did not play in 2005?
by sisyphus on Jan 17, 2007 8:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he didnt play
by Geeves28 on Jan 18, 2007 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I do.
"The Pirates agreed on Wednesday to trade closer Mike Gonzalez and minor-league shortstop Brent Lillibridge to the Braves for LaRoche and minor-league outfielder Jamie Romak. The deal is not expected to be announced until Thursday or Friday as the players must undergo physical examinations."
by matskralc on Jan 17, 2007 7:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If it is Lillibridge/Romak
by ILLZ on Jan 17, 2007 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm hesitant
by matskralc on Jan 17, 2007 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
According to...
by Charlie on Jan 17, 2007 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Check that...
by Charlie on Jan 17, 2007 7:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In that case
by matskralc on Jan 17, 2007 7:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Romak
Unfortunately, the Pirates have had no success in developing HS hitters, period, and Romak has a ways to go.
Maybe they can get him to lose weight, stop hitting for power and learn to bunt, so he can become a speedy, slap-hitting centerfielder.
by WTM on Jan 17, 2007 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but...
WTM, what's your opinion on losing Lillibridge? Do you think the Pirates gave up too much here?
by Charlie on Jan 17, 2007 7:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just happy
by psk984 on Jan 17, 2007 7:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Win meter
- Duffy CF
- Sanchez 2B
- Nady RF
- Bay LF
- LaRoche 1B
- Bautista 3B
- Paulino C
- Wilson SS
73 (up from 63 -- I'm feeling generous).
by bucdaddy on Jan 17, 2007 8:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The sad part is
by Willton on Jan 17, 2007 8:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not me!!
- SS Freddy
- C Paulino
- LF Bay
- 1B LaRoche
- RF Nady/Doumit
- 3B Bautista
- 2B Castillo
- CF Duffy
And we all know Jack Wilson will be at short and Freddy at third and Duffy in center so Bautista will ride the pine. Sigh.
by matskralc on Jan 17, 2007 8:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa, Nady hits 3rd?
Nady? 3rd? Really? Please....
by Willton on Jan 17, 2007 8:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was looking
by Greg Schuler on Jan 18, 2007 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Econolodge
And I've said all I need to say about Duffy and the leadoff slot.
by bucdaddy on Jan 17, 2007 8:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Bay hits third
by matskralc on Jan 17, 2007 8:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cue
by matskralc on Jan 17, 2007 8:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No more choking
by The New Guy on Jan 17, 2007 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re
by regfairfield on Jan 17, 2007 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bay Bats 3rd
LaRoche hits 4th. His power deems it necessary. Nady/Doumit hits 5th.
I have no idea what you said about Duffy leading off, but I'm going to guess it has little value. Leadoff is for a guy who gets on base well. Duffy does not do that. Bautista is a far better candidate for leadoff than Duffy.
by Willton on Jan 17, 2007 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Love the trade, but...
You guys projecting lineups are high. Jack Wilson will bat 2nd. Period. Not saying it's right, I'm saying it just is. I'll start to give Tracy a little credit when he proves he won't do that.
Lillibridge? Eh, it's the price of doing business. A good reliever and a good A-baller for a bonafide slugger would have been fine with me. Getting a freeroll with Romak is a bonus.
by azibuck on Jan 17, 2007 9:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
And Bautista's OBP is ...
Then Freddy cranks a double right behind him.
Um, OK, I guess I HADN'T said everything I had to say about Duffy/leadoff.
by bucdaddy on Jan 17, 2007 9:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
OBP
You say that Duffy's speed is wasted in the eight hole. I say that Duffy's speed is wasted because he can't get on base. "You can't steal first." It's a cliche for a reason.
by sisyphus on Jan 17, 2007 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
by The New Guy on Jan 17, 2007 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Begates?
by bucdaddy on Jan 17, 2007 9:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The thing is....
by ILLZ on Jan 17, 2007 10:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Also...
by ILLZ on Jan 17, 2007 10:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This is what happens
by Willton on Jan 17, 2007 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Batting Order
by JimBibbySweat on Jan 17, 2007 11:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
To complete the deal for the Braves...
by rogero on Jan 17, 2007 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Econolodge and Sisyphus
"I say that Duffy's speed is wasted because he can't get on base."
Second-half splits, 2006:
Duffy: .307 BA, .362 OBP
Bautista: .207 BA, .313 OBP
I, at long last, rest my case.
by bucdaddy on Jan 18, 2007 2:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That's very misleading
Bautista clearly has better plate discipline than Duffy does, as evidenced by the difference between their AVG and OBP. You're placing a lot of hope on Duffy being able to hit .300 regularly. Considering his low power and high strikeouts, I consider this doubtful.
by Willton on Jan 18, 2007 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not that I don't see your point
Duffy stunk last year, but I'm willing to give him another shot, at least for a little while, because of his speed.
We're not going to miss the playoffs next year because Duffy starts off batting first instead of Bautista or Freddy.
by The New Guy on Jan 18, 2007 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
strikeouts
I agree that Duffy should get another shot this year, but I'm not optimistic that he'll hit enough to keep the job.
You are correct that we aren't going to miss the playoffs next year because Duffy leads off. We'll miss the playoffs because Duffy leads off, Wilson bats second, Castillo neither hits nor fields his position worth a damn again, Nady can't hit right handers and Tracy is too stubborn to give his at bats against them to McLouth and Doumit, Cota gets any at bats at all, etc., etc,, etc.
by sisyphus on Jan 18, 2007 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why do so many bury Duffy after 440 ML at-bats?
Gee, ever see a prospect back out of the garage with the parking brake on, get sent down, get straightened out, and come back to be a good player? Happens all the time.
My point isn't that Duffy will be great, though I have a higher opinion of him than most. It's that we don't really know, and as a matter of fact, he did hit .300 regularly through the minors.
by azibuck on Jan 18, 2007 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gravedigger
by sisyphus on Jan 18, 2007 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Adrian Brown
by Greg Schuler on Jan 18, 2007 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dejan says...
by ILLZ on Jan 18, 2007 2:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Batting order affects # of PA's
by Willton on Jan 18, 2007 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes,
by ILLZ on Jan 18, 2007 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Was Billy Martin Crazy?"
My opinion: the top 2/3 of the order should have the best hitters, with OBP favored in the top third and slugging favored in the middle third. The #3 spot should be reserved for the player that is best in both categories.
by Willton on Jan 18, 2007 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
by ILLZ on Jan 18, 2007 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I remember
by azibuck on Jan 19, 2007 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sisyphus
by bucdaddy on Jan 18, 2007 4:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
second half
BTW, Bucdaddy, please use that "Reply to" button in long threads like these, if you don't mind. It keeps things from getting too confusing.
by Charlie on Jan 18, 2007 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right Charlie
by azibuck on Jan 18, 2007 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ignoring evidence
The Pirates performed better in the second half because their pitching improved. They scored less runs in the second half than they did in the first. Certainly Duffy's improved second half was a help, but not enough of a help to keep them from declining in runs scored..
by sisyphus on Jan 18, 2007 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They don't have equal weight
by azibuck on Jan 18, 2007 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lost
Since he doesn't walk much and has no power, Duffy must hit close to .300 to be worthy of a starting position. That's a high standard to meet for anyone. I don't think he can do it.
by sisyphus on Jan 18, 2007 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Duff
by bucdaddy on Jan 18, 2007 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
save yourself some time
Save yourself some time and effort and look instead at the ERA of the starting rotation before and after the break, as that's the most important factor in their improved record. The Pirates started winning when they stopped sending Perez, Santos and Wells out to the mound, when Dukes ERA went from 5.17 to 3.65, and when Maholm's went from 5.10 to 4.28. The team ERA went from 4.93 to 4.01. That's why they won more games in the second half, despite having their scoring decline from 4.11 runs per game to 3.88 runs per game.
by sisyphus on Jan 18, 2007 7:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Duffy, again
When they swept three from the Cardinals in mid August, he was 7-for-11 and scored 4 runs. Two of the runs came in a 3-2 win (the pitchers gave up 3 runs that series).
In the next game he was 2-for-4 and scored 2 runs in a 4-2 win.
When they swept three from the Cubs in late August, he was 5-for-14 and scored 5 runs. (The pitchers gave up 21 runs in that series.)
When they took 3-of-4 from the Cubs a week later, he was 7-for-12 and scored 5 runs (plus 4 steals). (The pitchers gave up 21 runs in that series.)
And when they swept three from the Mets, he was 5-for-11 with 2 runs and 3 steals. Two of the runs came in a 3-0 win (the pitchers gave up 5 runs in the series).
So the pitching was half great and half lousy. But I'd say Duffy was a very key player in those series, wouldn't you? Guy was on fire in September, and if you want to discount him for the quality of opposition that month, what with call-ups and all, then I'll point out that playing most of the time that same month Bautista was worse than terrible, batting .159 with a .266 OBP.
Small sample sizes, I'll grant, if you'll grant me that Duffy got much better during the season while Bautista got way worse for 2 1/2 months. Bautista at leadoff? Right now Bautista's going to have to show me he deserves to play at all.
by bucdaddy on Jan 18, 2007 11:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No ignorance here
I tout Bautista for leadoff because even if he hits somewhere around .250, he'll get on base at a rate around .100 points higher than that, which will likely give him a higher OBP than Duffy. Bautista will also provide power, which isn't a bad thing to have at the top of the order.
by Willton on Jan 18, 2007 7:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But
by The New Guy on Jan 18, 2007 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not if I were GM
by Willton on Jan 18, 2007 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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