Trade Deadline Open Thread: 31 July 2007
UPDATE 4:12 PM: If Littlefield did nothing, that's simply negligent on his part - he could have traded Chacon at the peak of his value, months before he hit free agency, in a market that was favorable to teams trading relievers. Instead, he will get nothing for him. It was also dumb to not trade Marte.
It's certainly possible that he didn't trade those players because teams wouldn't make him real offers because of his reputation, but that's also his fault. Apparently Littlefield either believes he should stand pat with yet another last-place, 42-61 team, or he is unable to make trades.
UPDATE 4:04 PM I've still got nothing. Julio Mateo has been traded to the Phillies.
UPDATE 4:00 PM: Still nothing.
UPDATE 3:56 PM: Four minutes left. We may see no movement at all, or maybe just one trade.
UPDATE 3:51 PM: Ugh, this is excruciating... I'm going to be really upset if Shawn Chacon is still on the team nine minutes from now.
UPDATE 3:40 PM: Here's confirmation on what Vlad said in the comments, which is that Morgan Ensberg has been dealt to the Padres. Still nothing from the Pirates.
UPDATE 3:28 PM: The Braves have dealt young starter Kyle Davies for Octavio Dotel.
UPDATE 2:54 PM: Rob Mackowiak has been traded to the Padres for a minor leaguer.
UPDATE 2:44 PM: Eric Gagne to the Rangers for Kason Gabbard and another player, apparently. This could be the domino that allows the Pirates to trade relievers. We'll see.
UPDATE 2:20 PM: No news yet, but the Tigers and Pirates continue to talk.
The deadline is at 4:00 PM, in about three hours. There hasn't been much more movement since the last thread - the Red Sox sent reliever Joel Pineiro, who they'd designated for assignment, to the Cardinals for a PTBNL. And the Yankees dealt reliever Scott Proctor for infielder Wilson Betemit. Decent trade for both teams - I'm not sure what Proctor's problem is (his strikeout rate is way off from his solid 2006), but he should still help a Dodger bullpen that's been a mess recently. And the Dodgers, who have some good third base options, didn't have much use for Betemit, but he's a better player than you probably realize - this year, he's been downright good, with a 116 OPS+.
As far as the Pirates are concerned: the Post-Gazette and Detroit Free Press confirm the Jack Wilson-to-Detroit rumors. The Tigers might agree to a deal that includes Wilson as well as one of the Pirates' relievers.
Really, though, the Pirates' focus right now has to be on getting rid of these relievers, especially Shawn Chacon. They shouldn't let a potential Wilson deal trip them up. They can always trade Wilson in the offseason and, in fact, it might be easier to do so, since teams will have a better idea of how they can fit Wilson into their budgets once the offseason starts. All three relievers the Bucs might trade - Chacon, Damaso Marte and Salomon Torres - are at the peak of their value now, and they'll never get another chance to trade Chacon.
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65 comments
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Littlefield
by bryanzane on
Jul 31, 2007 12:52 PM EDT
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proctor
Yanks could use Betemit to get a better pitcher than Proctor.
by bolton on
Jul 31, 2007 2:33 PM EDT
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in non-pirate news
by vanik on
Jul 31, 2007 2:45 PM EDT
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Mackowiak
Via MLBTR (and Jayson Stark on ESPN's trade deadline show)
by UtesFan89 on
Jul 31, 2007 2:58 PM EDT
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Gah!
by UtesFan89 on
Jul 31, 2007 2:58 PM EDT
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Ensberg also to San Diego
Nobody can accuse Towers of sitting on his hands, anyway.
by Vlad on
Jul 31, 2007 3:22 PM EDT
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Rumors
Dye to Boston all but dead.
Teix deal done, as is Dotel for Davies.
Gagne to Boston for 3 players, if Gagne says okay.
by UtesFan89 on
Jul 31, 2007 3:00 PM EDT
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Waiting for DL at the deadline...
by Vlad on
Jul 31, 2007 3:31 PM EDT
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This is torture
by richaude on
Jul 31, 2007 3:43 PM EDT
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Because we're filled with idiotic amounts of hope
by psk984 on
Jul 31, 2007 3:49 PM EDT
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You know I love you, baby.
by Vlad on
Jul 31, 2007 3:54 PM EDT
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Still time
by nick3849 on
Jul 31, 2007 3:58 PM EDT
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Still time ... I think
by nick3849 on
Jul 31, 2007 4:00 PM EDT
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Deadline
Then it's Groundhog Day all over again the next year.
by azibuck on
Jul 31, 2007 4:05 PM EDT
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Re Betamit
by bucdaddy on
Jul 31, 2007 4:06 PM EDT
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It's 4:20.
What a disappointment, eh?
by Vlad on
Jul 31, 2007 4:21 PM EDT
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Unless...
It wouldn't surprise me if Wilson is traded in August - can't imagine anyone would put a waiver claim in for him.
by OmarMoreno18 on
Jul 31, 2007 4:27 PM EDT
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I don't care about Wilson...
by Vlad on
Jul 31, 2007 4:30 PM EDT
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Me too...
If we're stuck with what we have, and DL is gone next year, I'll take it as a successful trading deadline.
by OmarMoreno18 on
Jul 31, 2007 4:36 PM EDT
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bright spot
Or 72 wins.
Or maybe 62 wins.
Well, at least we have 42.
by bolton on
Jul 31, 2007 4:26 PM EDT
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Hey Dave, was it the snooze?
Nutting: (pause) So what happened? The snooze alarm, wasn't it?
DL: Man, it wasn't the snooze. Most people think it was the snooze, but no, no snooze.
Nutting: AM/PM.
DL: Man, it wasn't the AM/PM. It was the volume.
Nutting: Ah...the volume.
DL: Yes, the volume. There was a separate knob for the radio alarm.
Nutting: Ah, separate knob.
DL: Yes, separate knob. Why separate knob?! Why separate knob?! (frustrated)
Nutting: Some people like to have the radio alarm a little louder than the radio.
DL: Oh, please, man, please!
by gg on
Jul 31, 2007 4:36 PM EDT
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Bright Spot II
by bucdaddy on
Jul 31, 2007 4:36 PM EDT
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But
by Greg Schuler on
Aug 1, 2007 9:02 AM EDT
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Dealin' Braves
by bucdaddy on
Jul 31, 2007 4:45 PM EDT
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Explain yourself Charlie
What exactly was Littlefield supposed to get for him?
Betemit? Chacon is only slightly better than Proctor this year (by ERA+), and Proctor was money last year. If the Dodgers truly had a choice between Chacon or Proctor for Betemit, you can't argue with choosing Proctor.
Chacon is not in Linebrink's class.
Chacon might have brought a middling prospect, but if I listened to you talk about BP, I'd doubt he'd yield that.
If the answer is he should have moved BP "for anything", I'd disagree, because I doubt he'd accept arbitration.
I can see saving Marte for an offseason deal, perhaps so someone will also take Wilson off our hands.
I guess my problem is with calling DL "negligent" just for not trading him at all.
by azibuck on
Jul 31, 2007 4:46 PM EDT
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It is Chacon
We have some people that could help other teams and can't help us. SOMEONE should have been dealt for a prospect.
by The New Guy on
Jul 31, 2007 4:49 PM EDT
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Remain Patient
by SeanCollier on
Jul 31, 2007 4:49 PM EDT
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Matt Morris?!?!?!?
For Rajai and a PTBNL
by hisjazziness on
Jul 31, 2007 4:54 PM EDT
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Meh
by Bukanier on
Jul 31, 2007 5:03 PM EDT
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rather cheap?
stats-wise, Morris seems a lot like Zach Duke this year -- very hittable and mediocre at best....
by humbucker on
Jul 31, 2007 5:10 PM EDT
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Oh, we were buyers all along
by gg on
Jul 31, 2007 5:10 PM EDT
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Cheap?
by bucdaddy on
Jul 31, 2007 5:08 PM EDT
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No money for Morris
It looks like DL took someone elses salary dump.
by BenM on
Jul 31, 2007 5:20 PM EDT
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Morris, OK
As long as the PTBN isn't anybody worth anything, it's a fine move for an org without pitching depth. "Fine" meaning sensible, nothing wrong with it. Not franchise-altering, or even good.
I like our rotation better today than I did yesterday, how about that?
by azibuck on
Jul 31, 2007 5:21 PM EDT
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Faint praise
by bucdaddy on
Jul 31, 2007 5:26 PM EDT
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Opportunity cost.
This offseason, would you rather sign Morris to a one-year deal for $10M, or use that money as a significant down payment for an impact bat?
by Vlad on
Jul 31, 2007 5:48 PM EDT
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Why one or the other?
by azibuck on
Jul 31, 2007 9:38 PM EDT
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OK
Regardless of how much money we have to spend, if we spend the money wisely we're going to run out of money before we run out of non-Morris things to spend it on.
by Vlad on
Jul 31, 2007 10:35 PM EDT
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Incredible
by matskralc on
Jul 31, 2007 5:26 PM EDT
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I was looking for your thoughts elsewhere
by TotalEnd98 on
Jul 31, 2007 7:34 PM EDT
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The salary is mostly irrelevant...
BB%, K%, HR%
Morris: 6.5; 12.1; 2.0
Duke: 5.3; 7.9; 2.4
Armas: 9.4; 15.9; 3.9
He's not much better than either of our two disasters. His ERA looks good because A) he's given up 13 unearned runs (his RA is something like 5.09 this year) and B) the Giants have a defense that can turn batted balls into outs. The Pirates do not.
I think this rivals the Aramis Ramirez trade in sheer stupidity.
by matskralc on
Jul 31, 2007 8:09 PM EDT
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Oh come on
Armas cost $3M this year. Chacon more than that. This is what Morris is worth. Not his value, his worth.
by azibuck on
Jul 31, 2007 9:44 PM EDT
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No, it's pretty stupid
by matskralc on
Jul 31, 2007 10:45 PM EDT
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Non-sequitur
by azibuck on
Aug 1, 2007 9:32 AM EDT
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What if
Say the two players to be named are Todd Redmond and Romulo! For most teams, you can stomach the loss of two okay pitching prospects. Not the Pirates - the organization is bare at all levels in terms of pitching.
by Greg Schuler on
Aug 1, 2007 9:07 AM EDT
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Just had a horrible thought
by bucdaddy on
Jul 31, 2007 5:55 PM EDT
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Gorzo
Also, I still think Morris will be traded again within 3 weeks...
by bryanzane on
Jul 31, 2007 6:04 PM EDT
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I really hope you're right
by matskralc on
Jul 31, 2007 6:09 PM EDT
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rajai
But aside from believing this trade to be pointless, I think we gave up too much. If it's true that the Giants aren't picking up any of Morris's contract, there's no reason the Pirates should have traded anything more than some 24-year-old reliever in A-ball. The Giants just wanted to dump that contract. Rajai Davis isn't a great prospect, but players with speed and the ability to play center field have value.
by bolton on
Jul 31, 2007 6:09 PM EDT
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Depression
If that's not the most depressing thing you've read all year I don't know what is.
Although, the fact that Morris was winless with an ERA over 8 in the last two months would be up there.
Also, Giants GM Brian Sabean quotes in an ESPN article:
"Almost at the 11th hour we were talking to two other teams I would consider competitors in the playoff situation. Pittsburgh stepped up, not only to take on the player as is -- meaning the contract -- but the potential return," in Davis, Sabean said."
Boy looks like he was surprised that the Pirates were willing to pay the full contract now wasn't he.
And to round out the superfecta, just take a look at all the prospects thrown around today for relievers like Marte, Torres, and Chacon. And then see who we got... no one.
Forget Yanks-Red Sox, as far as I'm concerned the biggest rivalry in baseball is Pirates Front Office vs. Pirates fans.
by NAS on
Jul 31, 2007 9:29 PM EDT
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And we should swallow Sabean's line whole?
"We think Morris has lost it and we're glad to be off the hook for his deal. I don't know Davis's first name or anything about him, but we got a warm body, and that's more than I thought we'd get."
by azibuck on
Jul 31, 2007 9:48 PM EDT
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I think it's really weird...
by Vlad on
Jul 31, 2007 11:01 PM EDT
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Maybe one of you guys
Their ancient everyday lineup is another matter entirely.
by bucdaddy on
Jul 31, 2007 11:34 PM EDT
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espn/stark's take on the swindle
The Giants' brass was sitting around its suite Tuesday morning, bemoaning the fact that it had no decent deals cooking whatsoever. And then, out of the blue, it happened. The Pirates called. And wanted Matt Morris. His 7.94 ERA since mid-June? Not a problem. That $9.5 million he's owed next year (not counting his $1 million 2009 buyout)? Not a problem. And so they swooped in and finished off a deal for Morris minutes before the deadline -- for a legit prospect (Rajai Davis), a second prospect to be chosen from an agreed-upon list and absolutely zero money changing hands...Don't get us wrong here. We love Matt Morris. Terrific guy. Has had a wonderful career. Should be a fine mentor to those young Pirates starters. But the Giants were just about begging teams to take Morris and offering to chomp big chunks of his money if they had to. Then this team going nowhere dropped out of the sky and took the man and the money. What a country. "That move," said one incredulous front-office man, "is so far out of left field, it's in the Monongahela."
by vherub on
Aug 1, 2007 11:30 AM EDT
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He had me at "Hello"
by azibuck on
Aug 1, 2007 12:22 PM EDT
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Legit
I know I would... why else would you take on a vet (when your team is going nowhere fast) and all $15 million or whatever?
by UtesFan89 on
Aug 1, 2007 12:51 PM EDT
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I guess it's relative.
I mean, I think Frandsen's better, but the larger point remains: Their hitter drafts have been so poor under Sabean that anybody with even ONE plus tool looks pretty good in comparison to the other stiffs.
by Vlad on
Aug 2, 2007 11:45 AM EDT
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