Philadelphia vs. Pittsburgh, 17 August 2007

by Charlie on Aug 17, 2007 5:51 PM EDT in News Comment 42 comments

7:05 PM, WPGB

J.D. Durbin vs. Tom Gorzelanny.

A couple notes:

-P- Andrew McCutchen, Neil Walker and Dave Davidson have all been promoted to Class AAA. You've got to read the statistics in a pretty selective way to argue that any of them deserve promotions - McCutchen only started hitting in July, is having his first really good month in August, and has been a huge disappointment overall; Walker hasn't hit since the All-Star break; and Davidson has a fine strikeout rate but has walked far too many batters. But hey, feel-good story, right?

-P- Jack Wilson has cleared waivers, so he can be traded. Based on my completely underinformed reading of these events, though, that seems unlikely. The original trade was rumored to be Wilson for Jair Jurrjens and another prospect, with the Tigers taking on all of Wilson's salary. Since the trading deadline, though, Jurrjens has been promoted to the majors, which means he'd have to clear waivers to be traded, and as a 21-year-old with some upside, he wouldn't be able to clear waivers. So it appears the Tigers were ready to look in another direction. Also, Wilson just cleared waivers, which means no team wanted to take on his contract - why would Detroit then be willing to take on his contract and give the Pirates prospects? If this trade does happen, the haul for the Pirates will probably be a disappointment compared to the trade that was originally reported.

-P- Steve Pearce had six RBIs yesterday against Durham.

-P- The Cards completed a sweep of the Brewers and the Cubs also won yesterday, thus bringing the Cubs to within a half game, and the Cards to within two and a half games, of the NL Central lead.

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Charlie

Littlefield is thinking that maybe the promotions will help ensure a winning season and gave him a little more ammo for an end-of-the year interview.
"See, we had a winning season...(mumbles)at Indy. That means the same thing will happen in Pittsburgh next year, right? Just give me another year. It`s part of my five-year plan...plus a few extra, but everything will be just fine and dandy in 2008. We`ll have Matt Morris for a full season, our young starters(don`t forget home-grown: self-congratulatory pat on the back)will be better next year, our everyday lineup will definitely be stronger, I`ll put together a super duper bench with Matt Kata, a more experienced Don Kelly...John Wasdin might come back, I`ll get Kuwata to come back again as well so he can help our next washed-up Japanese vet get used to the U.S., I`ll acquiesce(big word, tee, hee, hee) to Jim Tracy`s request to replace Jeff Manto as hitting coach with Mike Edwards, damn...I got some great ideas for 2008. Trust me.

by patthatt on Aug 17, 2007 4:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Have to wonder...

...what Nyjer Morgan thinks about Cutch coming up to take his job. He really couldn't have timed that injury any worse, could he?

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 8:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Less than meets the eye

The promotions are strictly cosmetic, so that Littlefiled can say in interviews that our system is showing progress, look at all the guys I've drafted who are in AAA.

by KPatrick on Aug 17, 2007 8:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd go with the latter theory

He promotes them so he can give an impression of impending major changes at the major league level. I don't think he realizes that Nutting is asking all sorts of people all sorts of questions about every aspect of this operation, and flim-flamming him will be a tad more difficult than it was with McClatchy.

by RichieHebner on Aug 17, 2007 9:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

But he flim-flammed Nutting pretty well to get him to agree to the Morris trade.

by WTM on Aug 17, 2007 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nutting

I think Nutting is running a two-man con here, with DL's unwitting participation. He's going to wander around for the rest of the year being "shocked" at all kinds of things that he already knew about, then announce that sweeping changes will have to be made. He gets to distance himself from the prior administration by having McClatchy fall on his sword and cutting DL loose, painting himself as a reformer and buying himself another five years to keep milking the cash cow.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's Hope...

(I know, a difficult thing to do with this organization)

Stick with me here a second.

What if Nutting wants to actually try and win (or at least compete)?

With Nutting coming out this season as the principal owner/lightning rod it is quite possible that his ego has been run through with the fan protest, ineptitude on the field and in the front office, etc.

Before, he let McClatchy take all the bullets, which he did like a good puppet. But now he's placed himself in the line of fire, and it might be a lot more difficult to deal with and accept all of the criticisms and insults that are flying his way.

After all, he's probably one of the younger owners in the league, no? It's possible he might have some youthful competitive spark and need for respect.

IF (a big word) he truly does clean house next year, I for one am going to give him the benefit of the doubt this ONE time. If he makes some smart hires and sweeping changes I'm willing to drop my veil of cynicism and give him some leeway. I won't be jumping on the feel-good bandwagon, but I won't be hoping it derails, either.

If he makes little to no changes, or makes terrible hires (retreads, yes-men, etc), then I'll officially lose all faith and trust, period.

by OmarMoreno18 on Aug 17, 2007 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not that implausible

Dejan has reported that the Nuttings thought it wasn't appropriate to butt into the team's management when McClatchy was running it. It's a little problematic taking that at face value, since by several accounts I've heard the Nuttings forced McClatchy to trade Ramirez by blocking any further investment in the team. Leaving that aside, though, it's not totally implausible, especially for people who by all accounts have no real interest in baseball, to think that the Nuttings are starting from scratch in learning how to run a team.

So now Bob Nutting is running the show, whether at his own initiative or McClatchy's. And according to various reports--Gammons' recent comments are entirely consistent with Dejan's reporting that Nutting was going to go to the owners' meeting to look for suggestions or whatever--Nutting is behaving just the way a responsible businessman would behave upon taking over a floundering business in an industry about which he knows little. The trip to the Dominican fits in with this, as well. I don't think you have to attach ulterior motives to it, like wanting McClatchy to take the fall or whatever. It's what you'd do if you thought there might be problems in the management of the business: you'd start educating yourself and you wouldn't rely on the people you suspect have fucked everything up.

Once he takes that approach, the rest of the script pretty much writes itself. McClatchy seemingly has been content to let DL tell him what a fine job DL is doing. But if Nutting asks around among MLB owners and execs, unless they lie to him for some reason he's bound to hear a very different story. There's no plausible way that it's better for him to have his business run in an incompetent manner. He's undoubtedly motivated primarily by money, but people in MLB are bound to tell him that it's possible to remain within a budget and still not run a team like it was the information booth at the village idiots' convention.

If Nutting was determined to allow his franchise to continue to be a punchline, there'd be no reason for him to start asking around about what to do. Once he starts asking around, there's only one logical outcome.

by WTM on Aug 17, 2007 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I think this process is as legit as Nutting as capable of, and while he isn't going to pour money into the team, if he does nothing but bring in someone who knows how to manage the finite pool of cash and talent available, this team will be better and Nutting will continue to make money. There is no incentive for Bob Nutting to send out a crummy team every day when a better group can give him a winner for less money than he is wasting now. I think he made a saleable (to a newbie) like Nutting that the Pirates were trying and trying to get a veteran arm, and here is a former 20-game winner for a comparatively affordable price. What Nutting needs a new executive for is to intercede and explain that we can get comparable talent off the waiver wire for a pittance, and that veteran does not equal good. By now, after watching Morris for a few starts, he has no doubt figured out that veterans such as Chacon, Armas and Morris eat up half your payroll and give you what you could have gotten from John Van Benschoten for less than $400,000 a year. This deal probably was the last nail in Littlefield's coffin. However, if we pay good money for Craig Monroe, all bets on all of these theories are off.

by RichieHebner on Aug 17, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why, but then, why wait?

Where would Walker, McCutchen, and Davidson start next season? Indy is my guess, and I have to think it's a pretty good one. If this were strictly a baseball or player development move (and it's probably not, like KPat and patthatt note), it gives the players a taste of the next level, maybe highlights what they still need to work on, and is a bridge to the AZ fall league.

By the way, Walker wasn't mentioned in yesterday's PPG Notebook as playing in AZ or Mexico this fall. Why wouldn't he, if Pearce, Bixler, and McCutchen are?

I think conventional wisdom is that the difference between AA and AAA isn't as great as the difference from A-AA or AAA-MLB, so what I wrote probably isn't a factor at all. But I don't see any big benefit to having them play out the string in AA either.

by azibuck on Aug 17, 2007 9:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

August Waivers -- help

Charlie, I could be wrong, but I disagree somewhat with your implications regarding Wilson and Jurrgens clearing or not clearing waivers.

Note: I'm way far from an expert on waivers, so any info from anyone would be helpful in a general sense, not just as it pertains to this.

I can see that no one would want to take Wilson's salary, but that doesn't mean Detroit can now offer less for him just because he cleared. At least not while still expecting to get him. Pgh placed him on waivers for the purpose of freeing him to be traded. Other teams know this, and claiming him either doesn't fit their plans, or they know the Pirates would just pull him back.

Look at the Giles for Bay and Perez deal. Giles contract had to be the opposite -- a contract more than a couple teams would have liked to pick up. But he cleared, probably because teams either knew, or gave up trying to claim him because the Pirates would just pull him back.

And doesn't Jurrgens = Perez (regarding waivers) here? Perez was a very high upside 22yo, yet he cleared. So did Bay, for that matter. Jurrgens could clear. Maybe it would be more difficult, but I don't know about "unlikely".

by azibuck on Aug 17, 2007 9:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Giles didn't clear waivers.

He was claimed by the Padres, who happened to have the second-worst record in the league (after ours), and therefore the highest priority on their claim. As such, we could only have traded him to San Diego or pulled him back.

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, Perez didn't clear waivers, either.

He was traded on July 31, right before the deadline.

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Traded to the Pirates, not from them

August 27.

by azibuck on Aug 17, 2007 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In which case...

...the situation was the same as that with Giles. The Padres put him on waivers, we claimed him, and they were thus allowed to trade him to us.

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Geez

You're faster than a phone call!

by azibuck on Aug 17, 2007 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's what SHE said.

Ba-dump-ch!

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Check me

Though if we had the worst record, we claim Perez and Bay, so really, the waiver process probably never got anywhere for all three.

OK, so nevermind my example, but I'm still guessing Jurrgens could clear.

by azibuck on Aug 17, 2007 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jurrens might clear

if it was obvious that he was going to Pittsburgh as opposed to, say, Seattle, the Angels or some team that is in the wild card hunt. GMs routinely let guys clear on a promise that a player is going to a contender. The only tough part might be Wilson, but since he cleared already, it is hard to see the Indians blocking Jurrens so that the Wilson trade couldn't be made if they already let Wilson through.

by RichieHebner on Aug 17, 2007 10:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I admit that in my heart of hearts...

...I wondered whether the Tigers called up Jurrjens in part so that DL could spin him more effectively as a "major league-ready" player.

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's also possible...

...that the Indians (or whomever) think that the Tigers would be a stronger team with Jurrjens than they'd be with Wilson, and not block it for that reason.

I bet it gets revisited in the offseason, if DL's still around then.

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, that's possible.

That's the only scenario that seems possible to me - that the Indians and any AL team who happens to be competing with the Tigers for a playoff spot decides that they're probably just shooting themselves in the foot in trading for Wilson anyway, and so they just let it happen. If they think getting Wilson helps the Tigers win a playoff spot, there's no way Jurrjens clears.

Leaving aside the question of waiver priority, I think this is a different case than Giles/Bay/Perez. Let's say a few teams come before the Pirates and Padres in that situation. Then, what I'm guessing would happen is that Littlefield and Kevin Towers call around to the GMs of those teams and say, "Hey, we're doing this deal in the offseason anyway, and you're not getting any of these players, so how about you do us a favor and not claim them?" It would be plausible, in that case, that the Bucs and Pads would still be able to make the trade. Here, though, there is no reason for anyone to do the Tigers any favors.

by Charlie on Aug 17, 2007 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But

Wouldn't we be second on the waiver priority, behind the Devil Rays, due to the current standings? Then it wouldn't matter what the Indians or anyone else wants to do. As long as Tampa Bay does not claim him, we could claim him before anyone else has a chance.

Or is the waiver priority process a bit more complicated than I think it is?

Matt Wait 'Til Next Year

by WTNY on Aug 17, 2007 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's segregated by league.

To get to us right now, Jurrjens would have to go unclaimed by every other team in the AL.

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah yes

Yes, that won't work.

Matt Wait 'Til Next Year

by WTNY on Aug 17, 2007 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Bucs aren't alone

Cameron Maybin was promoted the big club:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070817/SPORTS02/70817027/1048

by nick3849 on Aug 17, 2007 11:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Enough

Littlefield has jerryrigged this organization with a multitude of spare parts, bit players, has-beens and never was's.

So ... there's no room for Steven Pearce? What are they waiting for?

by bern1 on Aug 17, 2007 11:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

September

If they wait untill the roster expansion to call him up, he doesn't accrete any service time, thus decreasing the chance that he'll hit arbitration a year early as a "Super 2".

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's not actually true

What being called up in September does is not accumulate service time in regards to the BBWAA rookie of the year award. In overall service time, it still counts.

by TheJay on Aug 17, 2007 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

New topic:

Is it just me, or does this guy look an awful lot like Jack Wilson?

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 12:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If you liked his work in the Bonds suit...

...you may also enjoy this one.

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jack look-alike

He really does look like Jack's evil twin...

by RichieHebner on Aug 17, 2007 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which makes it even funnier...

...when you get to the part of the complaint about Barry Bonds bench-pressing him as an intimidation tactic.

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm...

The Tigers just DFA'ed Craig Monroe. I wonder whether something's cooking there.

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 1:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Craig Monroe

Yeah, I can see Dave stumbling around trying to be the first to call Dave Dombrowski. He will bid against himself for Craig Monroe, and we'll be paying his salary for another couple of years as well.

by RichieHebner on Aug 17, 2007 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jeez, WMP traded to Washington.

Apparently, everything's happening at once! Time is an illusion!

Figures that Bowden would be interested in him.

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

WMP = Wily Mo Pena

(For those not in the know.)

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought...

WMP = Sucks

(I think Azibuck came up with this equation, if I recall correctly...)

:-)

by OmarMoreno18 on Aug 17, 2007 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good one!

I thought for a second I had someone agreeing with me. I used to say "Kip Wells sucks" whenever his name came up in any context. Would have been nice to have WMP take his place in that way.

by azibuck on Aug 17, 2007 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bench

I guess we've got wonderful position player choices that can play for our bench tonight.

Wilson (asthma)
Nady (hamstring)
Maldonado (slow catcher)
Phelps (slow utility)
Kata (some speed but no bat)

I hope the 1 or 2 pinch hits that Nady has had in fairly meaningless situations the last 2 weeks has been worth making the rest of the bench totally inert. He hasn't been able to start in 2 weeks, should have been DL'd with Duffy.

by Thunder on Aug 17, 2007 8:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Watching the Jets.....

I'm sitting around watching preseason football and drinking Maker's Mark hoping the Pirates lose in embarrasing fashion. That is so wrong. Except for the drinking bourbon.

I despise you DL.....

by haven on Aug 17, 2007 8:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs